c5load From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 917 posts, RR: 0 Posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5432 times:
I've seen in the C-141 and the C-5 cockpit there used to be navigators in the olden days. Nowadays its just a work table but it got me wondering, did any early airliners around the same age use the navigator position?
"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
longhauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5719 posts, RR: 43
Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5402 times:
The last aircraft in Air Canada's fleet with a navigator was the DC-8, up to the DC-8-61. From the DC-8-63 and on, were built with INS, (including the B747-100/200 and L1011), then from the B767-200 on with IRS.
Eventually, the DC-8-61, and DC-8-50 were refitted with INS, and the Navigator position was retired.
The navigator table and seat though, existed right up until the last DC-8-73 was retired.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
kanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 4197 posts, RR: 30
Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5379 times:
Quoting c5load (Thread starter): I've seen in the C-141 and the C-5 cockpit there used to be navigators in the olden days.
Boy I cringe when people talk of the C-5 as "the olden days"... heck they're just recent history... Now in the Olden Days, they only flew during the day following the railway tracks.. (or a guy on a horse carrying a torch)
Jetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2611 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5342 times:
Quoting c5load (Thread starter): I've seen in the C-141 and the C-5 cockpit there used to be navigators in the olden days. Nowadays its just a work table but it got me wondering, did any early airliners around the same age use the navigator position?
The VC10 had a navigator in the crew before the advent of INS. RAF VC10's still have a navigator in the crew, but they are for tactical navigation related to air refuelling and so on, rather than giving directions to the driver (they have INS, GPS etc for that).
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
Fabo From Slovakia, joined Aug 2005, 1245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5292 times:
Soviets would keep navigators in crews all the way up to Tu-154. With their navigation systems, good thing too. Many airlines outside USSR started retiring them though, as different navigation systems became available and lumped into the planes. CSA, for example, never used navigators in their Tu-154s (which they only started using in late 80s)
The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
fanofjets From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2124 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4541 times:
The early-model Boeing 707s also had that sextant - in the cockpit sections at the Cradle of Aviation Museum (El Al Boeing 707-458, 4X-ATA, built 1961) and the New England Air Museum (Pan American World Airways Boeing 707-320, N714, built 1959) you can see the protrusions in the cockpit ceiling (thought they are retracted).
Going to much more modern times, the USAF VC-25s (747-24GB) actually have human navigators aboard!
Now, let's go to the Soviet Union. I'll mention just a few examples: The early Tupolev Tu-134s had the best navigator stations in the sky!