Starlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17380 posts, RR: 66
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5871 times:
I think it might be easiest to turn the question around. What makes a route desirable?
- Most hours in fewest days. "Get it done".
- Ability to sleep at home every night.
- Desirability of destination city. Paris: cool. Ouagadougou: less cool.
- Closeness to domicile.
Some of these are contradictory of course, and not all crew have similar lifestyle desires.
So if you can figure that out, then invert it, least desirable routes:
- Least hours in most days. Stay away a lot but don't fly a lot meaning less time at home. Then again a long layover in Hawaii might be desirable.
- Staying away from home for long periods.
- Flygin to obscure s***holes in sub-Saharan Africa.
- Long commute.
I'd say those African routes might hit the mark.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
IAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5802 times:
Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 3): I've heard that the IAH-LOS run is served with the most junior crews, I wonder why
LOS is not the end of the world, but you can see if from there!! Not sure it is really all that junior as the reserve pilots who are most junior on the airplane don't get all that much flying. But I would not really want to have a 30 hour layover there.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
JRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4779 posts, RR: 47
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5628 times:
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1): I think it might be easiest to turn the question around. What makes a route desirable?
- Most hours in fewest days. "Get it done".
It depends. There are also airlines where you get a fixed salary and it doesn't matter how much you fly. With those long layovers are more desirable as having your ass parked on the beach means the same salary as flying.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
e38 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 404 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5302 times:
Quoting bobbydgg (Thread starter), "What are the least popular routes among crew and why? "
bobbydgg, your question is considerably broad, but I think if you will apply some common sense, your answer would become clear. Keep in mind if you ask two crewmembers the same question, their answers might be as different as night and day because every individual has different things that would make routes and/or destinations desirable or undesirable, as Stalionblue pointed out in Reply 1.
Your comment about Delta crewmembers avoiding destinations in Africa is true because the propensity to contract malaria is prevalent in Africa. Also, issues regarding security can make a destination less than desirable. How much fun would it be to travel to some exotic destination if the hotel you stay in is in a "secured" compound and your company specifies that you NOT leave that compound? On the other hand, some pilots may enjoy going to that same destination just to be able to record a landing at an unusual destination in their logbook.
Furthermore, I am aware that many Delta pilots do not prefer trips that go to certain destinations in Mexico and/or Central/South America because of the mountainous terrain and the higher risk associated with arrivals to those airports--I know Guadalajara is one of those airports.
On the other hand, I have never heard of a pilot complaining about having to go to Honolulu/Kahului/Lihue, etc.
So, it all depends on the preferences of the individual. Some pilots enjoy flying overseas, while other only want domestic routes (short flights/radar contact!). Everyone is different.
Hope that helps.
Also, quoting Stalionblue (Rely 4), "You got that right. Good pickup line:"
I tried that once; the destination was Saskatoon. It did NOT impress anybody
Roseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 10489 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5244 times:
It really does depend. Out of SFO, some say the most popular routes are to Hawaii for cabin crew because United has it scheduled as an out and back route. That's 12 hours of flying and you get to sleep in your own bed at night. However, some will say those 16 hour days are brutal and too exhausting. Also you get to fly to Hawaii, but you never get to leave the plane, so no beach vacation layover.
Out of SEA, some will say that NRT is by far the best. Others will avoid the route since it is challenging to the body clock and for a while SJU was included as a layover on a 4 day trip.
Some senior crew really value working Monday - Friday. With enough seniority you can do that and never work a weekend.
Some crew don't care where they fly. Some will avoid Orlando like the plague. Some enjoy liquoring up the business crowd on evening flights to Chicago, New York, Washington, etc. Some hate the constant requests and endless supply of gate check bags where the elite flyers say that parting with their suitcase is akin to abducting their child.
Usually international goes to more senior crew. However the international trips to the UK are actually relatively short on total flying time from the North East. With no crew rests on the 757s, many of those routes will go rather junior.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
LimaFoxTango From Antigua and Barbuda, joined Jun 2004, 871 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5195 times:
I've heard heard many crews prefer north-south flights (eg North America to Caribbean/Central & South America) rather than east-west (eg transcon US, North America-Europe, North America-Hawaii). Reason being north-south flights tend to be turns or they only change time zones either once or twice max. Keeps the body clock in check.
You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
longhauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5629 posts, RR: 43
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4941 times:
My very first pairing as a B737 Captain was about as bad as it gets. In fact it was so bad, reserve went more senior, and as I was bottom man, I got a month of them.
Start at YYZ at 1900 and fly YYZ-YUL, then at 2100, switch to a Combi Freighter and fly YUL-YYZ-YHZ-YYT, arriving at 0700. Layover 22 hours.
Start at YYT at 0530 (0400 YYZ time) and fly YYT-YDF-YYR-ZUM-YWK-ZUM-YYR-YDF-YYT back at YYT around 1500. (yes that really is 8 legs in a B737 Combi Freighter). Layover 23 hours.
Start at YYT at 1530 and fly YYT-YUL ... sit for 4 hours, then YUL-YYZ back around midnight.
Take your pick of what makes this bad. Low credit for a LOT of work. Late nights, all nighters mixed with early mornings, 8 legs in one day ... most of it in a Combi Freighter.
It would take 16 days to make up a month of these. (4 4-day pairings). By comparison, the most senior B737 Captain at the time was working 8 days, doing YYZ-YYJ-YYZ. So he was doing 16 legs a month, I was doing 56! Sure got good at landing!
nws2002 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1040 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4437 times:
Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 3):
I've heard that the IAH-LOS run is served with the most junior crews, I wonder why...
LOL...hmmmm I wonder
Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 8): However the international trips to the UK are actually relatively short on total flying time from the North East.
That's true, it is too long to do a turn but too short to be really productive (at least compared with other international trips). If you are NTA based as sCO and on reserve you are guaranteed to get lots of UK flights. EWR-BOM and EWR-DEL are fairly productive but some avoid them because of the passengers.
On the domestic side, most flight attendants dislike New York - Florida routes because of the demanding passengers.
cornutt From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 338 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3873 times:
I've talked to a number of Delta and ASA FA's doing the ATL-HSV puddle jump. One I talked to told me that it was her fourth time on the run that day; the crew had a layover in HSV that night and then headed back out at 0550 the following morning. That's got to be exhausting. I guess pilots appreciate all of the takeoffs and landings, but cabin crew don't accumulate a lot of flight hours, and during the flights there's nothing for them to do since there is no beverage service and the seat-belt sign is often on for the whole flight. I think some of them get a bit stir crazy.
apodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4424 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3865 times:
At my carrier, I can't speak for routes, but HPN is probably among the least desirable RON's, and from what I hear, YOW is by far the most popular RON city.
There is a YQB standup (or high speed, depending on which airline you work for), that you would think would not be desirable, but it always seems like the route ends up being bid by very senior captains. Never quite got that one.
Alias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2906 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3852 times:
Like others have said it really depends on everyone's individual preferences and situation, though I don't know many people that like to bid for trips that have low daily average pay.
If you commute by air to your domicile, you likely want longer trips. Better to have the company pay for your hotel rooms than you. Usually commuters care less about where they layover than the report and release times of the trip, as they are trying to commute in the day of the trip and go home the day it ends. Early report or late release and you end up spending the night before or after your trip at your base instead of at home. There will still likely be preferences on where to layover, but most commuters I know prioritize trip length, commutability, and pay before layover preferences as those other three have the biggest effect on how much time you get to spend at home.
If you live close to your base then day trips and two day trips become more desirable, as you get to spend more time at home than if you flew longer trips. As an airline pilot, it feels great to go to work with just my headset, sunglasses, and lunch, and leave the rollaboard at home. Some of the people that live closer to base prefer Continuous Duty Overnight (CDO) trips, also sometimes referred to as standups or highspeeds depending on the airline. Show up late in the evening and work the last flight to an outstation, go to a hotel for maybe six or seven hours while still being considered on duty, and work the first flight back to your base in the morning. Not everyone can adjust their sleep schedule easily to sleeping during the day, but those that can often like being home during the day as they can get enough sleep during the day and still have time to get things done around the house.
As far as bidding to avoid certain cities, that's also personal preference and can vary greatly. Some bid based on how nice the hotel is, as they don't plan on going out and doing much, while others couldn't care less about the hotel amenities as they're going to be out exploring the city. Sometimes people bid specific layovers so they can visit friends or family in that city, or even better if you're a commuter, bid layovers in your hometown and sleep in your own bed. I know many captains that bid to avoid overnights in Canada as they don't like the hassle of clearing customs and would prefer to stay in the USA. I couldn't care less, and in fact some of my favorite overnight are in Canada. Different strokes for different folks.
Quoting e38 (Reply 7): I tried that once; the destination was Saskatoon. It did NOT impress anybody
You picked the wrong Saskatchewan city. Imagine how impressed she would have been if you'd said Regina
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.