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Grounded 787 Pilots  
User currently offlinegulfstream650 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 539 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11055 times:

Although of course they are probably rated on other types (and I may have answered my own question) but based on my knowledge of pilots being paid by the flying hour, how are 787 pilots earning a living at the moment?


I don't proclaim to be the best pilot in the world but I'm safe
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinedoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3421 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10956 times:

At most airlines after completing training on a new type you are no longer considered qualified to fly the old one. The FAA (or local authority) may still see them as properly rated pilot, but they could most likely not go right back to their old equipment. Most airlines have a minimum hourly guarantee, so the pilots not flying will probably be paid this.


When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offline777ord From United States of America, joined May 2010, 514 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10956 times:

They get paid their "guarentee" per month as this situation does not fall under them. They MAY have some administrative duties to perform, not likely.. So, it's literally free money.

If the 787 is grounded for a signifcant amont of time. Say 6mo-1yr. They'll go back to the 777 or 756 they previously were on.


User currently offlineFlyHossD From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 903 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10839 times:

I've heard through my grapevine that UA has cancelled future 787 training; those already in training will finish. Of course, this is NOT official.

Quoting 777ord (Reply 2):
If the 787 is grounded for a signifcant amont of time. Say 6mo-1yr. They'll go back to the 777 or 756 they previously were on.

There's probably a contractual limitation, too. That is, a pilot would have to bid a different position, too - he or she can't just bump another pilot out of his/her position (without an awarded position).



My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10805 times:

AI is sending all ex-777 pilots back to the 777, as it's only a single day conversion process, and the 787 is expected to be down for at least a month or 2.

Pilots from the 747 or A330 fleet will remain on the 787, as it's more expensive to retrain them.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlinebthebest From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10560 times:

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 3):
There's probably a contractual limitation, too. That is, a pilot would have to bid a different position, too - he or she can't just bump another pilot out of his/her position (without an awarded position).

Of course, if they're replacing the services with other aircraft, other pilot's wouldn't be scheduled so wouldn't be as big a deal. I would guess it all depends on the airline/authority's training regulations.


User currently offlineLO231 From Belgium, joined Sep 2004, 2392 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9963 times:

I think LO's pilots are 767 men...


Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
User currently offline777ord From United States of America, joined May 2010, 514 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8762 times:

Quoting LO231 (Reply 6):
I think LO's pilots are 767 men...

and that beautiful plane is still sitting next to T-5/ORD at a remote stand!


User currently offlinedkny From Ethiopia, joined Mar 2004, 714 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8585 times:

ET 787 pilots are rated for both the 787 and the 777 so no worries there

User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8364 times:
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LAN's 787 pilots are rated on the 767 and some are rated on the A340. The 787 pilots are currently flying 767 operated flights throughout LA's network.

User currently offlineLO231 From Belgium, joined Sep 2004, 2392 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7728 times:

I think LO's pilots are 767 men...

Quoting 777ord (Reply 7):

Which one is it, -LRA or -LRB? I flew on both already, so got lucky, yay. Just curious...



Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
User currently offlinePassedV1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 221 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5687 times:

Quoting gulfstream650 (Thread starter):
Although of course they are probably rated on other types (and I may have answered my own question) but based on my knowledge of pilots being paid by the flying hour, how are 787 pilots earning a living at the moment?

I don't know what the rules are for the various overseas carriers. I can tell you exactly what is happening at United...

They are getting paid 70 hours of flight pay (monthly minimum contractually at United) and they are off.

Quoting 777ord (Reply 2):
If the 787 is grounded for a signifcant amont of time. Say 6mo-1yr. They'll go back to the 777 or 756 they previously were on.

If United wants to get the 787 pilots back to other airplanes, they would have to close the 787 positions. When that happens, a displacement bid (or whatever United calls it) would have to be posted where 787 pilots could BUMP to ANY position in the system that their seniority could hold. It could be something that they have been trained in before, or it could be something completely different. Those pilots bumped by the 787 pilots could then bump anywhere, etc. until you get to the end. It would remain to be seen if United furloughed an equivilant number of junior pilots or created positions for them to be displaced to.

When it's time to put the 787 back in the air, they would have to put a bid out again for all pilots to bid on. It is a certainty that the "new" 787 will not be exactly the same pilots as the ones that are currently on the 787. In fact, United has the added twist that the current 787 pilots are all really CAL pilots. When a new bid comes out, the seniority list in use at the time will probably be the combined list (CAL/UAL) which gurantees that the new 787 pilots won't be the same.

Start counting training cycles, and you start to see why that unless the grounding is going to be at LEAST a year or more I think it is very unlikely that these pilots will be returned to the line sans some LOA with the union.

787CA displaces to 777CA who displaces a 767CA ->737CA -> 787FO -> 777FO -> 767FO -> 737FO -> Furlough?

And that's not eve considering the relative seniority of the domiciles.

Then in reverse when it's time to put the pieces back together.


User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4064 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4920 times:
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I'm sure 787 pilots have all the time in the world to hit the flight simulator now, but at some point aren't they required to fly "real hours" to remain current on type?


I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineMd88Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1330 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4844 times:

No. Simulator time is sufficient to stay current. Otherwise, they stay at home and collect a check. Better than going to work to fly a plane with fire issues.

User currently offlinedairy From Germany, joined Nov 2003, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4497 times:

Quoting LO231 (Reply 10):
Quoting 777ord (Reply 7):

Which one is it, -LRA or -LRB? I flew on both already, so got lucky, yay. Just curious...

it's LRA!



A318/A319/A320/A321 AB3/A306/A310/A333/A343/A346 732/733/735/736/744/752/763/764/772/773 DH3 F70 F100 CR2 CR1 CR7 ATR42
User currently offlinebueb0g From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 648 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4363 times:

Quoting gulfstream650 (Thread starter):
how are 787 pilots earning a living at the moment?

Well a lot will be on annual salaries anyway so it doesn't matter how much they fly, and for those being paid by the hour, they generally get a monthly guarantee of 60 - 70 hrs.



Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8181 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3850 times:

I'm not sure about JAL, but at ANA they are on a straight salary system. Also things being what they are in Japan, most likely the grounded 787 pilots are being given mundane administrative duties. Even if they are contractually unable to assign these duties, most likely the pilots have volunteered or made oral agreements with management to do so. There is basically no concept of getting paid for nothing in this country.


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17068 posts, RR: 66
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2465 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 12):

I'm sure 787 pilots have all the time in the world to hit the flight simulator now, but at some point aren't they required to fly "real hours" to remain current on type?

As Md88Captain says, the simulator is enough. Most new airline pilots nowadays have never flown the real aircraft until the first time they fly in the right seat, on the line, with passengers. The plane is waaaaay too expensive to use as a training device when the simulator is so accurate.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
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