RussianJet From Kazakhstan, joined Jul 2007, 6276 posts, RR: 23 Posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1885 times:
Curiosity - has anyone ever made a non-stop, round-the-world flight longitudinally, passing over both the north and south poles?
I am motivated to ask because I know it has been done latitudinally (correct adverb?), and can't readily find anything concrete to suggest a flight has taken place in the manner I suggest. Many people out there are interested in challenges like this, so it seems to me that someone may well have attempted or at least planned such a feat.
Are there any particular challenges beyond the obvious non-stop round-the-world challenges of things like fuel endurance?
flyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 1268 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1853 times:
Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter): Are there any particular challenges beyond the obvious non-stop round-the-world challenges of things like fuel endurance?
tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 81 Reply 2, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1830 times:
Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter): Are there any particular challenges beyond the obvious non-stop round-the-world challenges of things like fuel endurance?
That routing will have bigger ETOPS challenges...that's not really a regulatory hurdle because ETOPS doesn't apply to those types of record flights but you'd want to be a lot more careful about diversion/emergency planning.
I assume one would rather land on Midway Atoll than in the middle of Antarctica.
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 2): but you'd want to be a lot more careful about diversion/emergency planning.
Is that really such a big problem for a death-defying, record-breaking daredevil? I mean, people are happy to freefall from the edge of space for example....
bikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1588 posts, RR: 4 Reply 5, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1778 times:
Of all the non-stop flights around the world . . . which direction did they went? I assumed that they went a certain direction to take into account prevailing wind and rotation of the earth.
So an intermediate challenge would be to go the reverse before you try the poles?
Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15869 posts, RR: 66 Reply 7, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1595 times:
Quoting bikerthai (Reply 5):
Of all the non-stop flights around the world . . . which direction did they went? I assumed that they went a certain direction to take into account prevailing wind and rotation of the earth.
Virgin Global Flyer went eastbound all three times. Voyager went westbound. It really depends on which hemisphere for the winds. Also presumably seasonal.
Quoting timz (Reply 6): Have there only been four nonstop flights round the world? Three eastward and one west?
Unrefueled you have Rutan Voyager once and Virgin Global Flyer three times. Can't think of any others.
Refueled you have the three B-52s.
[Edited 2013-01-30 18:29:46]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - from Citadel by John Ringo
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21464 posts, RR: 24 Reply 8, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1591 times:
It wasn't nonstop but in October 1977 a Pan Am 747SP made a special round-the-world flight over both Poles to commemorate their 50th anniversary. You could purchase tickets on that flight ($3,333 first class, $2,222 economy). Routing was SFO - LHR - CPT- AKL - SFO, passing over the North Pole between SFO and LHR, and over the South Pole between CPT and AKL. Total flight time including the stops just over 54 hours.
It's also mentioned in the Wikipedia articles on the 747SP and Pan Am. That flight used the aircraft below., named "Clipper New Horizons" at the time of the flight (it was renamed 4 or 5 times). Note the special "Flight 50" logo on that aircraft referring to that special flight, just behind the Pan Am name in the 1st photo and just over the forward door in the 2nd photo. I think that was the only Pan Am 747SP that made it into the "billboard" livery before they sold their Pacific routes (including their 11 SPs) to United in 1986 in their effort to generate cash and avoid bankruptcy a little longer.
As mentioned in the news item above, a 707-320C did something similar in 1965 (the newspaper article says it was TWA but it was Flying Tiger). That flight operated HNL-LHR - LIS - EZE - CHC - HNL, passing over the North Pole between HNL and LHR and over the South Pole between EZE and CHC. That flight took about 62 hours including 51 hours in the air.
rfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6140 posts, RR: 25 Reply 9, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1573 times:
Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter): Are there any particular challenges beyond the obvious non-stop round-the-world challenges of things like fuel endurance?
Flying over the North Pole is challenging - but well documented enough with losses of navigational aids to be an acceptable risk.
Flying over the South Pole is even more challenging and more problems with navigational aids.
The real problem is weather.
The Rutan Voyager flew at an average of 11,000 ft. The GlobalFlyer flew quite a bit higher - Fossett was at 40,000 ft when he diverted to Bournemouth.
Neither aircraft was designed to withstand rough weather conditions. They also both required the assistance of tailwinds - thus why the Rutan Voyager flight and the three GlobalFlyer flights were all eastbound circumnavigations.
A North to South Pole circumnavigation would approach one of the two poles in a poor weather situation. There would be almost no wind assistance.
It is going to require an aircraft with significantly more endurance that the Voyager or GlobalFlyer.
LH707330 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 181 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1436 times:
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 9):
A North to South Pole circumnavigation would approach one of the two poles in a poor weather situation. There would be almost no wind assistance.
If you have to cross the jetstream, then you'd get a knock because you need to crab into the crosswind, unless you want to drift right and then left of course a bit....
...and one B-50: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_Lady_II . One of the B-52s that made it was the Lucky Lady III. Lucky Lady I was a B-29 that made an eight-stop round the world trip.
And there has a training bombing run in 1995 where B-1s dropped ordnance on three ranges while completing a nonstop round the world flight: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronet_Bat
David
Even a letdown, if it is thoroughly and final, is a step forward.
rfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6140 posts, RR: 25 Reply 13, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1260 times:
Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15869 posts, RR: 66 Reply 14, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1167 times:
Quoting timz (Reply 12): Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 9):
thus why the Rutan Voyager flight and the three GlobalFlyer flights were all eastbound circumnavigations.
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 7):
Voyager went westbound.
Anyone else think Voyager went eastward?
I thought so too. But I looked it up and all the maps show the course to be westbound. Given the nature of the Intertubes, It could all be lies of course.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - from Citadel by John Ringo
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