Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Tugs  
User currently offlineDavid B. From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3148 posts, RR: 5
Posted (12 years 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 2714 times:

Are tugs hard to handle? WHat kind of training is needed to operate one and what kind of engine do they use? GOing to need a lot of power to push back a 747.


Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDC10Tony From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 years 7 months 12 hours ago) and read 2540 times:

David B.

The pushback machines used to push the planes have BIG diesel engines in them. We have 2 new FMCs and 2 old ones at our airport. The newer FMCs have a Caterpillar (CAT) V8 Diesel which probably makes around 1,500 ft-lbs. of torque @ about 1,000rpms and around 300 horsepower.

It takes weight and traction to get the plane moving though, and the small pushback machines weigh in at around 50,000 pounds and has big, 5' tall tires on them and a VERY TOUGH transmission. Their top speed is about 35 mph in high gear and in low gear, it doubles the engine's rpms and makes some awesome raw torque for moving planes a slow speeds.

The Tugs (brand name) that you see hauling the baggage carts have the Ford 4.9L 300ci I-6 in them geared very low with Ford's industrial transmission. Some will top out at around 30 but most have a top speed of about 20-25. Their power is about 130hp and about 240 ft-lbs. of torque.


User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 5988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (12 years 7 months 11 hours ago) and read 2490 times:

What's the main differences between the "old" tugs and the new superTugs? Apart, of course, from the latter swallowing the nosegear.

User currently offlineDC10Tony From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (12 years 7 months 9 hours ago) and read 2470 times:

Do the Super Tugs pick up the plane's nosegear and just back it out?

One advantage I can see with the Super Tug is you don't have to go searching for the correct towbar to push the plane back with.


User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6005 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (12 years 7 months 8 hours ago) and read 2459 times:

also, with the pushbacks, The transmission gears down the engine, at least 8 times, so there is a LOT of power, but also A high fuel consumption.

Most of the puchbacks around only have 3 piston deisels, and produce the same power as a Passenger van.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineEssentialPowr From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1820 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2381 times:

The brandname "Tugs" is a product built by Stewart & Stevenson headquarted in Houston, TX.

As with just about any product in the airline industry, these tugs and push tractors are offerred in a range of sizes with a variety of powerplant options; most are diesel from John Deere, Deutz or Detroit Diesel.


User currently offlineMetwrench From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 750 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2362 times:

When "Pushing Back" you must alternate your scan between the tail of the A/C, your "wing walkers", the "turn limits" on the nose gear, "Flight Crew" dialog from your headset and the environment around you.

The "mechanics" of "pushing an aircraft back" are rather straightforward. If you want the tail to go left, steer left, when the angle you want is achieved, over compensate to the right, then steer left again.

Practice makes perfect. Just scan everything and don't forget that the brakes will stop everything, the Flight Crew can aid this if you tell them to.


User currently offlineTERRA From Iraq, joined Aug 1999, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2371 times:

The 2 p/back tugs used by DHL in EMA both have a four stroke, six cylinder Deutz diesel engine with a max speed of 17-20 mph and around 300 hp. The heavier tug is also fitted with a turbo charger.

The nose lifting types are a lot lighter and the smaller of these have less hp. However the largest types have larger engines, 10 cylinder, and have a hp of 500+. One problem with noselifter is that they cannot tow all types. Another is there is no fail safe if you go past max tow angle. I prefer to have a tow bar which will brake before the nose oleo gets damaged. One advantage of a nose lifter, however, is that they can move aircraft quickly which is handy when operating at larger airports.

Rich


User currently offlineRatzz From Sweden, joined Sep 1999, 198 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2331 times:

Couldn´t agree with you more,towbar´s preferred by me as well,but we here at ARN use both towbarless tugs as well as conventional ones.The towbarless ones are made by Douglas GSE or Goldhofer and have sensors mounted in the cradle that lifts the nosewheel to warn the driver if he´s/she´s about to oversteer the tug and exceed maximum tow angel by means of monitoring the position of the cradle and overall nosewheel pressure to either side of it.
Works sorta like shearpins on a regular towbar.I´ve witnessed a few occations whereas the shearpins should have broken,and didn´t....

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently offlineTERRA From Iraq, joined Aug 1999, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2279 times:

Not all towbarless tugs have this warning mechanism. I did my initial training on towbarless tugs in Brussels many years ago and just prefered the traditional method. In the past we have had aircraft receive severe damage to their nose gear as well as problems when the tug simpy won't let go of the nose wheel after the pushback!
I agree that shear pins don't always brake when supposed to but they can easily be replaced. I also find it easier to position a/c into a hangar with a bar as i can see where i'm planting the nose wheel. Important if i've got to get the wheels in a small box marked on the floor.



User currently offlineMikeclod From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 272 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2260 times:

There is a company called Lektro that supplies pushbacks for Horizan, they are completely electric and work with a scoop. They also make smaller models for ga. They are rear wheel steering, so you have to be VERY careful, or you'll spin way to fast. You can almost do a 360 on the spot. Quite a bit of fun.

User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2208 times:

I love those Lektro pushback units. Those things are fun. When I worked for ASA, I took one of my friends at AirTran for a ride in one, and he got a little frightened, not by my driving, but by the speed and agility those things have. A little correction to an earlier post, in order to steel a planes tail left, you must steer the pushback to the right and vice versa. Having been a veteran of well over 200 pushbacks, I know the proccedure quite well.

User currently onlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2173 times:

Hi guys.

Here's a photo of one of those towbarless Super Tugs that was mentioned.


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Jason Taperell



It looks like it's brand name is Goldhofer.

I have 2 questions....How long have these towbarless tugs been around?

Also, as asked by DC10Tony, do these tugs actually "pick up" an airliner's nosegear in their cradle, or are the nosegear tires always in contact with the ground?

Thanks.

Chris  Smile



"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlineAcidradio From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1874 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2150 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Pushback is usually the time when the pushback driver and the crew make explicit comments about the flight attendants aboard the flight. Some pushback drivers require the flight crew to tell a dirty joke before they will disconnect the towbar  Smile

Lektros are not bad pieces of machinery, however they do take some practice (not like any other pushback equipment does not need practice...) to get used to because of the reverse steering. The drivewheels are in the front and the steering wheels are in the rear. My trainer compared it to a forklift, and in reality it almost is. After all, it uses similar parts. The only downside to the Lektro is when it is low on battery, it will just die and you can't do anything about it. You will have pushed back a plane partway, and then all of a sudden the thing dies. Not fun. Other than that, they are pretty good machines, especially for pushing back smaller props and RJ's.



Ich haben zwei Platzspielen und ein Microphone
User currently offlineCx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6597 posts, RR: 55
Reply 14, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2151 times:

I remember a few years ago at Kai Tak HAECO received a couple of tugs to 'sample' and they were the new towbar-less type. It had McDonnell Douglas written on the side of them. Was this THE McDonnell Douglas? HAECO didn't buy them in the end and went with another brand that also has no towbar.

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2142 times:

Lektros suck.....

They are horrible on ice since they have no weight to them and you have to keep them inside when it gets really cold because the batteries will freeze.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSUDDEN From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2139 times:

When I lived in Sweden and worked at GOT we had a tug that had a weight of 30 tons and had 2 V8 diesel engines. The best tug I ever drove to be honest. Good view and very easy to handle, even if it was big. Never had any problems when it was icy conditions on the ramp either.
We had others, but that one was the best.

The tug you guys call supertug is very nice to. Don't have to drive around to find the correct towbar.
Also much faster response due to that you are "one with the nosegear".
But as stated above, it's horrible when the ramp is slippry.

My training for push was both practise, we pushed stairs and GPU's, and to study books.
After we had learned how to handle the stairs and GPU, we could push A/C's with our instructor.
When he saw that we had got a hang of it, we could chose to say "Ok, I make this next push my exame push".

The best pushback was when had the TU154.
Our tugs were to high, so we had reverse them out to the centerline. That was fun!

Have a great weekend!
Sudden



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlineMikeclod From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 272 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2134 times:

Yes, they do actually pick the nose gear up on a hydrallic platform. On Lektros, you steer in opposite directions when changing from push to pull. Really helps on taildraggers.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2133 times:

I should add that the only saving grace of a Lektrocart is that there is only one pivot point.

A standard towbar pivots with the nosegear and at the pintle where it contects to the tug. At least on a Lektrocart you ony have to pivot with the nosegear.

I stand by my earlier comments.

A tug that was designed for use on a ice-free ramp in California is not a good design for Alaska when it is -10 below zero.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSUDDEN From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2131 times:

Anyone of you guys that have heard of the "KALMARTUGS"?
A swedish company that makes tugs and other equipment for airport use.



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently onlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2119 times:

Great info guys about these towbar-less Super Tugs.

>Mikeclod, thanks for answering both DC10tony's & my question regarding whether or not these Super Tugs actually "pick up" the nosegear tires of aircraft.

Can anyone explain how these tugs lift an airliner's nosegear up off the ground? I suspect this feat only requires a few inches of ground clearance. What is the cradle made of, and how does it grab the tires?

Going twice...How long have these Super Tugs been around for? (on any ramp).

Thanks guys.

Chris  Smile



"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlineDufo From Slovenia, joined May 1999, 798 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2107 times:

These things are huge.


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Jernej Verbovsek



Jernej



I seriously think I just creamed my pants without any influence from any outside variables.
User currently offlineRatzz From Sweden, joined Sep 1999, 198 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2088 times:

The towbarless tugs,regardless of size,lifts/drags the nosewheel up in it´s "cradle"by means of using a gate to lock the nosewheel in position.Either by dragging the tug&cradle undernieth the nosegear prior to closing the gate(Goldhofer and others),or by means of just locking the gear against the cradle prior to closing the gate(Kalmar Motors/Douglas GSE).
After that is done,the entire "cradle"assy.is hoisted hydraulically a few inches above the tarmac.
Upon pushback/towing ops.completion,the cradle is lowered to the ground,gate is opened and the tug moves away from the nosegear.
Most towbarless tugs have means of adjusting either the cradle position or the wheelbase of the tug or a combo of both for best possible traction.


User currently onlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2073 times:

>Ratzz, Great information about how these towbarless tugs lift the nosegear of airliners. Thank You.

Do you have any idea of how long these tugs have been in service around the world?

Chris  Smile



"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlineMikeclod From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 272 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2071 times:

sorry, don't know how long. The elektro tugs have a strap you loop around the nose gear, and winch on to the cradle. It's a little different from the type where the whole tug goes around the gear.

User currently offlineMikeclod From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 272 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (12 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2072 times:

Oh, 1967.
http://www.lektro.com


Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Tugs
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
SWAPs For GSE Tow Back Trailers (TUGS) And Pickups posted Tue May 3 2005 23:47:29 by Sheldyn
Pictures Of Towbarless Tugs posted Fri Dec 10 2004 18:56:47 by AirbusA346
Tugs posted Wed Apr 7 2004 10:54:13 by Tokolosh
Aircraft Tugs: How Much Horsepower/torque? posted Mon Apr 5 2004 06:58:23 by Aguilo
Tugs posted Fri Nov 15 2002 23:13:55 by Modesto2
Tugs posted Sun Jan 27 2002 21:46:24 by David B.

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format