Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Truck Refueling At Major U.S. Airport  
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6859 times:

Does anyone know which is the biggest commercial airport in the U.S. that is still using truck refueling, rather than underground refueling ?


Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinekordcj From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6719 times:

Last time I flew thru MSY they still were using trucks to refuel aircraft. I was quite taken aback by it as I had never seen a commercial craft refueled by truck before.


The most obvious proof for intelligent life in the universe is that they haven't tried to contact us.
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6672 times:

Quoting kordcj (Reply 1):
Last time I flew thru MSY they still were using trucks to refuel aircraft.

But that's not nearly the biggest one..............



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9317 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6619 times:

Quoting Geezer (Thread starter):
Does anyone know which is the biggest commercial airport in the U.S. that is still using truck refueling, rather than underground refueling ?

Don't they still do it at LGA?



yep.
User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2455 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6604 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I remember seeing a Shell truck refueling us in LAS. But that was a Hughes Airwest DC-9 in 1977.  
Quoting Geezer (Reply 2):
Quoting kordcj (Reply 1):
Last time I flew thru MSY they still were using trucks to refuel aircraft.
Quoting Geezer (Reply 2):
But that's not nearly the biggest one..............

But of the ones listed here so far, it's close lol.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4257 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6591 times:

Definitely PHL....as they have no underground system there at all.

User currently offlineHermansCVR580 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 509 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6363 times:

While most fueling companies at all airports still have tankers on site for use where there is no hydrant pits a lot of time the freight ramps have no hydrant system or they have tankers on site should the hydrant system go down or a hydrant pit at a gate.

But I would have to say from my experience PHL would be the largest user of tankers on a everyday basis followed by LGA and MSY.



The right decision at the wrong time, is still a wrong decision. "Hal Carr"
User currently offlinebaileyncreme From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6330 times:

How about Lindbergh @ San Diego (SAN)..??? Lots of DART tankers there. I was a refueler at this airport. Zoom
in on the airport with Google Maps and check them out. They are all over the place.

Portland International Airport (PDX) also does a lot of tanker refueling. I worked there also back in 2000-2001.
The Horizon ramp, Skywest/Air BC ramp and the freighter ramps all are truck refueled.

I loved (!) driving those Dart tankers. 10,000 gallon beasts. The toughest aircraft to fuel were
the UPS DC-8's. We had to use tall step ladders and lift the fueling hose up to connect underneath.

My favorite aircraft to fuel was the 727. Those were just beautiful aircraft. They looked like rocket ships
standing still.


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10374 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6218 times:

Quoting kordcj (Reply 1):
Last time I flew thru MSY they still were using trucks to refuel aircraft. I was quite taken aback by it as I had never seen a commercial craft refueled by truck before.

In MSY's case I believe it's because the water table is so high. Probably virtually impossible to put in an underground fueling system at that airport and impractical, too. Too much chance of water leaking into the system or vice versa.



I worked with a guy in SLC that had been a fueler for DL at MSY. I was told by a very reliable source that this guy wrecked three fuel trucks in ONE day while working there. After seeing him drive, I can believe it. He was later promoted to a lead agent in SLC (pre DL/WA merger).



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinefreeze3192 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 6043 times:

EWR and CLE have a combination of hydrants and trucks.

IAD has trucks for all of the UAX gates, not sure about mainline.



"A passenger bets his life that his pilot is a worthy heir to an ancient tradition of excellence and professionalism."
User currently offlinefuelfool From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5928 times:

Quoting baileyncreme (Reply 7):
I loved (!) driving those Dart tankers. 10,000 gallon beasts. The toughest aircraft to fuel were
the UPS DC-8's. We had to use tall step ladders and lift the fueling hose up to connect underneath.

I worked at a place that let us pull between the engines on the DC-8s. We would pull in from the tail. First time I did it, I thought there was no way it would fit.



I love the smell of jet fuel in the morning...Smells like victory!
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5925 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 5):
Definitely PHL....as they have no underground system there at all.

Very good, apodino ! PHL it is ! The reason I happened to know this is..........a few years back when the new Northwest Florida Beaches International Airport first opened for business, I drove down to Florida for the "Open House"; A very close friend of mine was the station manager for one of the carriers, and as he was extremely busy, he "arranged" for me to have a "guide", so I could take pictures from the ramp as the first plane ever to land on the new runway was due to arrive shortly.

My "guide" was a very nice young man who had come down from PHL to help out with the Grand Opening; when I asked him what he did at PHL, he told me he was "over" fueling there, and then mentioned to me about PHL being the biggest commercial airport still lacking an underground fueling system. It was all very interesting to me, as I used to be a tank truck driver for Texaco back in the early 1960's, and I frequently delivered 4 loads of av gas to CVG every day. Back then, ALL airports ( to the best of my knowledge) used truck refueling.

Things were very different around airports back then, especially "security"; back then, security consisted of a 6 ft. chain link fence around the tank farm, and a 3 or 4 ft fence between the parking lot and the ramp where the planes were being refueled. Another thing that was quite different from today was......at the time, all of the airliners serving Greater Cincinnati were still reciprocating engine, prop jobs burning 100-115 octane av gas, and 145 octane av gas ( DC-7s) except for 6 flights each day with TWA's "brand new" B 707s. Shortly later, AA and Delta started getting some DC-8s and CV 880s. Another interesting thing about "security" of the time, as I went there every day, I had to have every load checked and water tested before I could start dumping it, so I became very friendly with all of the "ground service" guys from AA, Delta and especially Piedmont; often, when I arrived with a load of av gas, they would be busy getting a plane ready to go, so being interested in airplanes, I would just stroll out on the ramp, watch everything that was going on, occasionally follow a guy up on a wing to check something ! (Nothing at all like it is today !)

My friend / guide from PHL explained that the airport at Philly is owned by the City, and because of that, it's "run" by a bunch of politicians, ( much like our Federal Government, it would seem ); when I asked why on earth had a big airport that size never installed an underground fuel system, he just smiled and said, "that's a very good question, but one that nobody so far has ever been able to answer". Only in Philadelphia !

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently onlinestrfyr51 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 1155 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5904 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Philadelphia would never install as system whee NOBODY could get a kickback. They tax EVERY transaction at the airport and accept no deviation of that. Were there and Underground fueling system then any airline might have bulk fuel being delivered that the city Govt might not get a cut of. Besides that the cost to install a hydrant system would be trmendous and close gates and terminals for Months if not Years. And Philadelphia is NOT going to pony up for that when there are fueling companies avaiable. It takes only a little longer to fuel with a truck than a hydrant as the truck has a little greater parking radius from the plane

User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5881 times:

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 12):
It takes only a little longer to fuel with a truck than a hydrant as the truck has a little greater parking radius from the plane
Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 12):
Philadelphia would never install as system where NOBODY could get a kickback. They tax EVERY transaction at the airport and accept no deviation of that.

It takes only a little longer to fuel with a truck than a hydrant as the truck has a little greater parking radius from the plane

My guess is, you're probably right about the first part;

Second part........."back in the day", obviously, things were a hell of a lot less crowded on ramps, and as I remember, all of the refuelers were special built so the whole thing would fit under most wings; as I remember, when I first started hauling av gas, most of the filler ports were on top of the wings, and fuel was delivered manually, with an "open fill"; I seem to remember the first time I saw an under-wing "tight-fit" hose connection. ( huge improvement, that!)

You're absolutely right about the way cities try to get their fingers into every pocket! The big problem with refueling trucks is of course, just one more huge potential safety hazard, in an already potentially very hazardous environment, where MANY lives are at peril from ALL un-necessary hazards.

In other words, why doesn't the FAA say to ALL airport authorities......."hey folks, this is how we did it back in the 50's, and THIS is 2013 ! Either get those damned pipes underground, or build a new airport" ! Period.

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineSAAFNAV From South Africa, joined Mar 2010, 271 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5849 times:

Quoting fuelfool (Reply 10):
First time I did it, I thought there was no way it would fit.

Yeah, that's what she said!



On-board Direction Consultant
User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 928 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5702 times:

I believe ORD uses the fuel trucks for the UAX operation as well.

Quoting mayor (Reply 8):
I worked with a guy in SLC that had been a fueler for DL at MSY. I was told by a very reliable source that this guy wrecked three fuel trucks in ONE day while working there. After seeing him drive, I can believe it. He was later promoted to a lead agent in SLC (pre DL/WA merger).

I always find it amazing that these guys are always the ones that get promoted when the other guy that does his job well and safely gets overlooked....



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlinemmedford From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 561 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5687 times:

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 15):

Never heard of the Peter Principle?



ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25057 posts, RR: 46
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks ago) and read 5546 times:

LAX has trucks depending on whom you contract your into plane fuel with, and where you park.

The underground hydrant systems are managed by a consortiums, so unless you also buy fuel from them you might have to find other vendors including those using tankers trucks.

Also various spots around the airport such as many of the cargo ramps, and overflow parking spots do not have hydrant hookups.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31679 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5371 times:

The Parking bay location should be equipped with Hydrant port for fuelling,else the Truck [Bowser] is used.
The Defuelling procedure also requires the Fuel removed from the Aircraft to be put into a Bowser too.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1865 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5296 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

JFK uses tankers for all of its cargo operations, they also use tankers for all of the Delta Connection flights at JFK as well as some of the gates where the hydrants are either unavaible or hard to access. Tanker fueling is not uncommon at any airport. I would think every airport would have tankers available for when planes park in areas that don't have hydrants installed.


The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5287 times:

Quoting mmedford (Reply 16):
Never heard of the Peter Principle?

Ah,.....Dr. Laurence Peter's fine book ! not only heard of it. but read it......twice. "Everyone is promoted "upward" until they reach their level of incompetence" ! Been there, seen that.......may times!


I used to work for Texaco at their old bulk terminal on the Ohio River in Cincinnati in the 60's for 7 years; we had a Superintendent who was a classic example of Dr. Peter's famous principle;



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineKD5MDK From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week ago) and read 4926 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 15):

Never heard of the Peter Principle?

This would be the Dilbert Principle. "Can't drive? Promote him to a job that doesn't involve driving."


User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4913 times:

Quoting KD5MDK (Reply 21):
This would be the Dilbert Principle. "Can't drive? Promote him to a job that doesn't involve driving."

Lol ! I haven't seen a "Dilbert" strip for a while; who knows, the cartoonist who created Dilbert may have been copying Dr. Peter; I'm pretty sure Dr. Peter wrote his book way before "Dilbert" came along.



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineRIXrat From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 788 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4793 times:

I know that I'm late to the party, but I was thinking not only in the case of PHL, but about DL and its new refinery. Surely they can supply PHL via truck, but do they dump their fuel into the communal tank at other airports that have underground plugs and still reap the benefits of so-called cheaper fuel that they produce?

User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17015 posts, RR: 67
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4774 times:

Quoting Geezer (Reply 22):
Quoting KD5MDK (Reply 21):
This would be the Dilbert Principle. "Can't drive? Promote him to a job that doesn't involve driving."

Lol ! I haven't seen a "Dilbert" strip for a while; who knows, the cartoonist who created Dilbert may have been copying Dr. Peter; I'm pretty sure Dr. Peter wrote his book way before "Dilbert" came along.

The Dilbert Principle is absolutely a parody of The Peter Principle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dilbert_principle



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
25 FlyDeltaJets : Most major airports get their fuel piped in from a local refinery.
26 Post contains images HAWK21M : This is Interesting.......Using the term "Promote" rather thanb "Relocate" is the problem...
27 Geezer : That's pretty much what I was thinking; I can't remember how long it's been since I read "The Peter Principal", bit I know it's probably at least 30
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Truck Refueling At Major U.S. Airport
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Tornado Warnings And Major Airport Operations posted Sat Apr 23 2011 08:01:59 by BigB
Outcome Of WX Delays At A Major Hub posted Sat Oct 30 2010 20:24:24 by c5load
Anyone Working At Mroc Airport? posted Sun Mar 8 2009 20:15:30 by Scxmechanic
Runway Problems At Bristol Airport, Report In. posted Fri Jan 9 2009 06:08:51 by Readytotaxi
Biggest Aircraft At Antwerp Airport posted Wed Dec 10 2008 07:05:29 by 330lover
Services At The Airport posted Fri Nov 14 2008 08:57:14 by Longitude
How Do Bizjets Get Slots At Major Airports? posted Fri Jun 27 2008 15:49:28 by QFA380
Runway 28 At Dublin Airport posted Mon Apr 28 2008 08:27:53 by Cc2314
Airbus Crew Ignores ILS And Lands At Wrong Airport posted Tue Jan 23 2007 23:48:44 by Ajaaron
Anyone Landed At Wrong Airport Or Runway? posted Fri Nov 10 2006 12:33:28 by Redcordes

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format