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Why Flight Manual Is Not Mandatory For Light A/c?  
User currently offlineY_islam From India, joined May 2001, 7 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 years 7 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3312 times:


Here I am sending one of my queries related to aviation industry rules - Indian Aircraft Rules 1937:
There are two types of certificate of Airworthiness issued by DGCA,
1) C of A as issued on form no CA-23 where carrying of Flight manual onboard is mandatory &
2) C of A as issued on form no CA-23A where carrying of Flight manual onboard is not mandatory
For public transport aircraft to observe operating limitations during flight , it is mandatory that Flight manual
is mandatory. Then why for light aircraft flight manual is not mandatory. Does it mean that light aircraft
need not follow operating limitations as in Flight Manual.
Please clarify.
Younus Islam


13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineA330CFBUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (12 years 7 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3262 times:

Well, I dunno about that... I'm in Canada, so it may differ in the states. But here anyhow, as far as I know, it must be carried on board at all times, and not only that, but must be within the pilot in command's reach. It must be on board in order for the C of A to be valid for each flight. The only thing we don't ALWAYS have to have on board is the Journey Log... we don't have to carry the Journey Log as long as we aren't touching down at another airport, or as long as we are staying within 25NM of our point of departure. So hopefully that can clear up the Canadian side of things, as I am not aware of any small aircraft not having to carry it on board. However, as an after thought, perhaps aircraft like an ultra-light, do not have to carry it on board, as perhaps, there simply is no place to carry it? Perhaps an Ultra light pilot can clear that one up.

User currently offlineJetguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 7 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3255 times:

I have no idea how they do it in India. Here in the States, the simple answer is not all aircraft have flight manuals. I'm quoting this from memory because I don't have time to look up the references, but I believe that (in the US) the FAR's require either a manual, placards, or instrument markings which denote aircraft operating limitations. I learned to fly in an old Aeronca 7AC Champ. I don't think that there was even a manual printed for that aircraft. If there was, I've never seen one. Same for the Piper J-3, Luscombe, and a lot of other aircraft that I have flown over the years. The limitations weren't printed in a flight manual, but rather noted on placards and instrument faces in the cockpit. I hope this helps, however I'm sure that there are some A&P and AI types who can give you a much better answer.

User currently offlineMD11nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (12 years 7 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3249 times:

To supplement what Jetguy had stated, in the US, prior to March 1, 1979, small airplanes under 6000 lbs were not required to have a flight manual -- limitations handled by placards. Some manufacturers chose to have flight manual, some didn't. All aircraft after March 1, 1979 are required to have a flight manual, either an AFM or a GAMA format that combines the Pilot Operating Handbook and the flight manual called "Pilot's Operating Handbook and FAA Approved AFM".

Regards,
Nut


User currently offlineMinuteman From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (12 years 7 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3224 times:

I'm not disagreeing, but can anyone provide the location in the FARs for each element of the ARROW acronym? I honestly have never been able to find all of them.

User currently offlineMD11nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (12 years 7 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3201 times:

Minuteman,
what is the ARROW acronym? I'm not familiar with the term.
The reference for flight manuals can be found on part 2x.1581-1589 (the latest regulations which require a flight manual).

Regards,
Nut


User currently offlineA330CFBUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (12 years 7 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3200 times:

Is this the one you mean? Here's what I was taught...

All of the following must be carried on board:

A= certificate of Airworthiness
R= certificate of Registration
O= Operating manual
W= Weight and balance paperwork
J= Journey log
I= Insurance
L= Licences (ie. PPL, Medical, Radio, etc.)
I= Intercept Orders

The exception being the Journey log, if within operated within 25nm of point of departure, provided you are not landing at another airport.


User currently offlineY_islam From India, joined May 2001, 7 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (12 years 7 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3189 times:

dear all,
I have gone through all the responses and I am convinced with the idea of Mr. A330CFBUS
that space consideration may be one reason for not carrying Flight Manual onboard. But are there F.M.
for light a/c by manufacturers at all?
Younus.


User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (12 years 7 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3183 times:

With "ARROW" it is exactly the same as the AROW porition of what A330CFBUS stated, with the second "R" being Radio Operators License, if required.

User currently offlineMinuteman From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 years 7 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3170 times:

Right, I guess there just might be different requirements for different countries!!  Smile ARROW is a mnemonic for remembering the required documents for an aircraft.

Airworthiness Certificate
Radio Station License (outside U.S.)
Registration Certificate
Operating Handbook and Limitations
Weight and Balance

For example, the Operating Handbook is required by FAR §91.9(b)(1). Presumeably, this acronym was created from a list someone made from looking through the FARs. Any ideas where the other four items come from?


User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3147 times:

The following is an excerpt from the ORIGINAL ISSUE of FAR 23 which is a design standard for light small aircraft:

Sec. 23.1581

General.

(a) Furnishing information. The applicable information in Secs. 23.1583 through 23.1589 must be furnished--
(1) For each airplane of more than 6,000 pounds maximum weight, in an Airplane Flight Manual; and
(2) For each airplane of 6,000 pounds or less maximum weight, in an Airplane Flight Manual or in any combination of manuals, markings, and placards.
(b) Approval and segregation of information. Each part of the Airplane Flight Manual containing information prescribed in Secs. 23.1583 through 23.1589 must be approved, segregated, identified, and clearly distinguished from each unapproved part of that manual.
(c) Additional information. Any information not specified in Secs. 23.1583 through 23.1589 that is required for safe operation because of unusual design, operating, or handling characteristics must be furnished.



Later versions of FAR 23 don't have an option for a combination of manuals and placards in lieu of an AFM.

So....older light aircraft may only have an operating manual (POH) and a few placards.


User currently offlineThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1648 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3139 times:

Likewise, Jetguy. I soloed in a Luscombe 8-E and there was no manual. The placards and insrument markings said it all and there was no way weight and balance was a factor; two people heavy enough to put the aircraft over gross wouldn't fit in the small cabin. I still remember one of the placards that read: Continuous operation at 1900 RPM prohibited. Seems that that would induce flutter.


User currently offlineJetguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3136 times:

My favorite aircraft placard reads something to the effect...

"WARNING - Improper operation will lead to serious injury or death."

I alway found that one funny for some reason. I'm sure that some legal department insisted on putting in in plain view of the pilot. (As if he/she wouldn't know that they could die if they screwed up.) I used to own a Luscome 8-F. It was a great airplane and I understand that they're going to go back into production later this year. This time with a 150 hp Lycoming. That out to be a very nice airplane!


User currently offlineThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1648 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3126 times:

Roger that, Jetguy. I can't imagine what a whole 150 hp would do to a Luscombe but I'd love to fly one. It'll make the C-152 pale in comparison, plus you get an airframe stressed for plus 9 and negative 3 Gs.

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