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Just Bought A Cessna O-2A Vietnam Vet. Now What?  
User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 12350 times:

As the title says.

Together with some other people we have decided to buy an original 1967 Cessna O-2A. It looks brand new and is fully refurbished in its original state.
We will use it to fly around Europe to airshows for static and demo display.

Now, all of us have different licenses, but what we all share is an EASA PPL SEP. Some have ATPL MET, some have FAA PPL as well.

Now, the aircraft will remain N-regged.
So what I am looking for is the quickest/easiest/cheapest way to get from EASA PPL SEP to fly this FAA MEP (C/T).
Most of us prefer to train on a C337 or O-2 in the US, for financial reasons.

Anybody with more info on this? Any suggestions, good/bad experiences?

Any tips, suggestions etc with regards to maintaining and flying the O-2A is welcome as well, of course.

Thanks in advance,

Erik

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dqnvKQPjoeQ/UNo0KMSL3qI/AAAAAAAAKfM/u6HE1uYBBq4/s1600/O-2A_cartoon_final.jpg


Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLonghornmaniac From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 3298 posts, RR: 44
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12224 times:

Quoting BrouAviation (Thread starter):

As the title says.

Shouldn't you have thought of the answer to this question before you bought it?   

In all seriousness, I have no advice for you, but congratulations and best of luck!   

Cheers,
Cameron


User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3766 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12208 times:

Quoting BrouAviation (Thread starter):
So what I am looking for is the quickest/easiest/cheapest way to get from EASA PPL SEP to fly this FAA MEP (C/T).

A quick trip to a flight school in the US should get you sorted licence-wise.
I believe the PPL can be quickly converted, and the FAA multi engine licence is a matter of a dozen hours in a twin.
I can't remember if there is a separate rating for centerline thrust multis though...



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineDashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1528 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 12121 times:

I have about 700 hours in the 337. It's an easy airplane to fly, much like a 210. When applying power, lead with the rear engine to minimize sucking stuff through the rear prop. Earlier models had an aluminum battery cable and since the batt is under the front cowling, you'll want to start that one first and then the rear. Watch the gauges to make sure the rear engine is happy. Pay attention to the rear engine CHT as it usually runs hotter than the front engine.

Been single engine twice in the airplane with one of each failing. It flies fine with either engine out. Yours likely has the aux tanks, so when someone is fueling it for you make sure they are fueling the proper tank. I think I remember the tanks being backwards compared to most GA aircraft, and it screwed me once in that the line guys tanked up the wrong tanks. I was shorted a bunch of gas and had to call them back out.

If it still has main gear doors, they'll probably give you trouble at some point.


User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6386 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 12096 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 2):
I believe the PPL can be quickly converted, and the FAA multi engine licence is a matter of a dozen hours in a twin.
I can't remember if there is a separate rating for centerline thrust multis though...

No, but if you take your multi checkride in a 337, you get a limitation of "Centerline Thrust only" on your multi rating  
Quoting DashTrash (Reply 3):
Been single engine twice in the airplane with one of each failing. It flies fine with either engine out. Yours likely has the aux tanks, so when someone is fueling it for you make sure they are fueling the proper tank. I think I remember the tanks being backwards compared to most GA aircraft, and it screwed me once in that the line guys tanked up the wrong tanks. I was shorted a bunch of gas and had to call them back out.

It is really important in the 337 to learn to quickly identify the dead engine, since "Dead foot, dead engine" doesn't count on this bird. There have been a few fatal accidents right after takeoff where the FAA/NTSB suspect that the PIC did not correctly identify the dead engine and feathered the wrong prop  

One thing you should learn from an experienced 337 owner: when to use the rear engine. It heats up on the ground much easier than the front, and most 337 owners will tell you that the front engine always makes TBO, the rear not so much. The front engine is the one you want to lose, since the aircraft climbs much better on the rear... I have 10 hours in a P337 (my late flight instructor's personal bird), and I found it to handle much like a Cessna 182RG   It has the "big airplane" feel and stability   



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 12006 times:

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 1):
Shouldn't you have thought of the answer to this question before you bought it?

Yes, and of course we have.   Thing is, I am not sure our method is actually the cheapest and most efficient. As every other FTO you ask will tell you exactly what you need (and coincidentally that perfectly aligns with what they have to offer). So I am not only asking what we could do best, but also where we can do it best. So any suggestions on instructors/flying schools with 337's in the US are very welcome. Especially in FL, CA and AZ.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 2):
I can't remember if there is a separate rating for centerline thrust multis though...

That's the thing: There is (or used to be) one in the US, after first one even was allowed to fly the 337 without a ME rating.

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 3):

If it still has main gear doors, they'll probably give you trouble at some point.

I have read a lot about them. Time will tell. If they cause trouble, we probably take them off. But at first we are going to try it in its original state, perfectly restored with even all the original avionics and weapon systems. The latter being live, meaning that when we put rockets in them - we could actually fire them. 
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 4):
It is really important in the 337 to learn to quickly identify the dead engine, since "Dead foot, dead engine" doesn't count on this bird. There have been a few fatal accidents right after takeoff where the FAA/NTSB suspect that the PIC did not correctly identify the dead engine and feathered the wrong prop

That's the thing. Some of us do want to get their ME but they don't like the whole dead foot dead engine flying, so they want to get it in the US on a 337.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 4):
I have 10 hours in a P337 (my late flight instructor's personal bird), and I found it to handle much like a Cessna 182RG   It has the "big airplane" feel and stability   
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 4):
No, but if you take your multi checkride in a 337, you get a limitation of "Centerline Thrust only" on your multi rating

Is this FAA-only? If someone with an EASA ME rating converts to FAA on a 337 in the US, will his FAA ME also be CT-only or will the FAA acknowledge his European rating restrictions?



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6386 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 11996 times:

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 5):
Is this FAA-only?

If you have no prior multiengine rating, and take the FAA multiengine practical exam in a Cessna 337, you will have the "Centerline Thrust only" restriction on your multi license. I do not know how the FAA handles someone trying to convert foreign flying experience to an FAA license   That might be something to contact AOPA in the US about...they probably have someone who could give you an authoritative answer on that one.



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17040 posts, RR: 66
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 11837 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 2):
I believe the PPL can be quickly converted, and the FAA multi engine licence is a matter of a dozen hours in a twin.

You don't need a dozen. If you're fresh you can do it in 5-8. I did my Commercial Multi add-on in about 2½ hours at the controls, but to be fair I spent another 2½ hours in the back seat observing another student who was going for the same rating. Also I had just done my Commercial Single.

There is no hours requirement for an FAA multi add-on requirement. You must only demonstrate proficiency.

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 5):
So any suggestions on instructors/flying schools with 337's in the US are very welcome. Especially in FL, CA and AZ.

No 337 there, but from personal experience I would recommend SunState Aviation in Kissimmee (close to Orlando) http://www.sunstateaviation.com/. Can't praise those guys highly enough. They are experts at "full immersion" flight training and have plenty of foreign students so they understand about conversion etc. You'll save time and money compared to doing it the "traditional" way.

If you want to do Commercial Single followed by Commercial Multi, already have the required hours, and don't want an Instrument ratings, you can do it in a couple of weeks for under US$10k. As I said they don't have a 337 but you might well find that it is cheaper in total than going with a school that already has a 337 (do check). Also as mentioned by KELPkid if you get your rating on a 337 you'll have a restriction on the license.

The question is, do you need Commercial? From a purely personal perspective, I think the CPL made me a much safer pilot, but of course it is extra time and money.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 6):
I do not know how the FAA handles someone trying to convert foreign flying experience to an FAA license

Mike at SunState can go through the details for your particular case.

[Edited 2013-03-26 17:36:38]

[Edited 2013-03-26 17:50:43]


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlinebond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 11787 times:

Quoting BrouAviation (Thread starter):
As the title says.

Together with some other people we have decided to buy

So does that mean you have purchased it, or just decided to buy it?

I would have expected an actual photo  

Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17040 posts, RR: 66
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11768 times:

Quoting bond007 (Reply 8):
I would have expected an actual photo  

What did you think this was? http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dqnvKQPjoeQ/UNo0KMSL3qI/AAAAAAAAKfM/u6HE1uYBBq4/s1600/O-2A_cartoon_final.jpg



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently onlineCrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1872 posts, RR: 41
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11735 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Congrats on your purchase! Will you guys base it in the Netherlands? It would be fantastic to have one flying around here!

Martijn



Nothing's worse then flying the same registration twice, except flying it 4 times..
User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 11655 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 6):
That might be something to contact AOPA in the US about...they probably have someone who could give you an authoritative answer on that one.

Good one, will contact them ASAP.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 7):

No 337 there, but from personal experience I would recommend SunState Aviation in Kissimmee (close to Orlando) http://www.sunstateaviation.com/. Can't praise those guys highly enough.

Are those the same guys who fly a Piper-28 with the large eagle painted over the fuselage? I was there last year, Kissimee would be a great place to spend the time. In the meantime I have discovered a mr. Gonzalez offering training on the 337 in the Miami area, so maybe we will do a little bit of both, depending on the pricing.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 7):

The question is, do you need Commercial? From a purely personal perspective, I think the CPL made me a much safer pilot, but of course it is extra time and money.

No, we don't. Some have though, because they make (or used to make) their money flying airliners, but most of us are EASA PPL guys, without intention of going commercial.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 7):
Also as mentioned by KELPkid if you get your rating on a 337 you'll have a restriction on the license.

It would be no problem. Some already have a EASA ME-rating (mostly MET though) without restrictions, and those without one have no interest in flying any other ME aircraft. They actually favour the O-2A/C337 because of the C/T configuration.

Quoting bond007 (Reply 8):
So does that mean you have purchased it, or just decided to buy it?

I would have expected an actual photo  

Little bit of both.  Deposit has been paid, we are now in the process of prebuy inspection. We expect to have it ferried (if no problems arise) within the coming four weeks.



For more info and pictures I have put this .pdf online:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15182309/O2.pdf

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9):

What did you think this was? 

It came up after googling. I just love it!

Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 10):

Congrats on your purchase! Will you guys base it in the Netherlands? It would be fantastic to have one flying around here!

Yep. Will be based on EHTE (Teuge). The first requests from airshows for static and flying demos have already arrived in our mailbox.  

[Edited 2013-03-27 01:50:32]

[Edited 2013-03-27 01:50:44]


Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17040 posts, RR: 66
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 11633 times:

What's the drag penalty for the rocket pods? 
Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 11):
Are those the same guys who fly a Piper-28 with the large eagle painted over the fuselage?

Nope, but I have seen that one on occasion. SunState are a "Cessna school" except for the lone Tecnam twin, which in any case is also high wing.

BTW there are two schools at KISM. You want SunState, not the other one. Trust me on this.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineTheSultanOfWing From El Salvador, joined Dec 2012, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 11489 times:

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 11):
For more info and pictures I have put this .pdf online:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15182309/O2.pdf

Good stuff.
I would love to own an aircraft.....

Congratulations.
May I be so bold as to ask how much a plane like that costs??

Good luck, with the paperwork!


Cheers...........



I feel like the A318 at times: I am probably worth more parted out than as a whole.
User currently offlineFlyHossD From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 890 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11442 times:

Maybe this guy can point you in the right direction:

http://skymaster.com/

Even though you didn't buy the plane from him, it's still in his best interest to help keep Skymaster operations safe.

Good luck.



My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6386 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 11411 times:

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 11):
Yep. Will be based on EHTE (Teuge). The first requests from airshows for static and flying demos have already arrived in our mailbox.

Your new bird has quite the history. It was part of the Republic of Vietnam Air Force, then USAF, and was one of eight Skymasters that was transferred to the US Navy, and one of two of those that was transferred from the Navy to the Army   

Does it have any documented battle damage? That seems to be a matter of pride amongst warbird owners  



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineatct From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2293 posts, RR: 38
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 11311 times:

Steve Weaver can probably give you specific 337 training. Located in WV he used to fly them in Airshows, now has an aircraft sales biz.

http://www.steveweaver.com/

Clint



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 11197 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 12):
What's the drag penalty for the rocket pods? 

Don't know. For the longer ferry flights we might take them off and store them inside..

Quoting TheSultanOfWing (Reply 13):

Congratulations.
May I be so bold as to ask how much a plane like that costs??

I don't want to share the actual price we paid, but it was somewhere between 100K and 200K USD.

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 14):
Even though you didn't buy the plane from him, it's still in his best interest to help keep Skymaster operations safe.
Quoting atct (Reply 16):

Steve Weaver can probably give you specific 337 training. Located in WV he used to fly them in Airshows, now has an aircraft sales biz.

Thank you for your suggestions. Will contact both.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 15):

Does it have any documented battle damage? That seems to be a matter of pride amongst warbird owners  

It does. It is as much 'war' as one can get in a warbird. It has seen more action than many of the Flying Legends who gather at Duxford every year, and yes - that is a matter of pride. 



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlineDashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1528 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11157 times:

Seeing the picture makes me wonder if my friend flew that thing in Vietnam. He was a FAC pilot in Vietnam. He's no longer around to ask if that tail is in his logbook though.

User currently offlineTheSultanOfWing From El Salvador, joined Dec 2012, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 11019 times:

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 17):

I don't want to share the actual price we paid, but it was somewhere between 100K and 200K USD.

Thanks! That was the rough indication I was looking for!
Congrats once again!



I feel like the A318 at times: I am probably worth more parted out than as a whole.
User currently offlineptrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10968 times:

Congratulations, Erik.

I don't know if it this might be of any use to you, but there's a similar operation in the Czech Republic, or at least that's where I saw it. I couldn't find out who the operators are, but I might know somebody who knows if you're interested.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter de Jong



Peter 



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlineMarkusB From Austria, joined Aug 2004, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 10890 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

Erik,
"The Flying Bulls" in Salzburg/Austria (LOWS) are also operating a 337.
http://www.flyingbulls.com/#/en/Aircraft/C-337-D-Push-Pull/
and if you want I could get you in touch with the guys flying and maintaining her.
Markus

[Edited 2013-03-29 02:28:22]

User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6386 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 10770 times:

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 18):

Seeing the picture makes me wonder if my friend flew that thing in Vietnam. He was a FAC pilot in Vietnam. He's no longer around to ask if that tail is in his logbook though.

Wonder if the family would let you peek into his logbook...   



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10739 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 22):
Wonder if the family would let you peek into his logbook...

I could always look in the logbooks of the aircraft for the name of the pilot, all logs should be present. You could send me a PM with the name/base/approximate years of service?



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlineTheSultanOfWing From El Salvador, joined Dec 2012, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 10557 times:

Please keep this thread going while you guys are jumping the numerous hurdles such as test flying, the transfer to Europe, possible livery changes etc!

I would love to see more private aviation threads on A-net, and ideally; there should be a special section for GA.
This is not necessarily Tech / Ops, nor is it really Aviation hobby (although for some part it is), military, travel polls & prefs or photography.

Kudos for starting the tread.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 22):

Wonder if the family would let you peek into his logbook...

That would be an idea!
Surely they woudn't toss documents like that!?



I feel like the A318 at times: I am probably worth more parted out than as a whole.
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 59
Reply 25, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10741 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 6):
If you have no prior multiengine rating, and take the FAA multiengine practical exam in a Cessna 337, you will have the "Centerline Thrust only" restriction on your multi license.

I once met a former F-14 Tomcat pilot who had to complete some training in a Beechcraft Duchess to remove his centerline thrust restriction.



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineDashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1528 posts, RR: 2
Reply 26, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 10586 times:

I thought the F-14 wasn't centerline thrust. I think the F-18 is, but thought the Tomcat and Eagle had an exemption when converting certificates. I could be dead wrong about that....

User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 59
Reply 27, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 10672 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 26):
I thought the F-14 wasn't centerline thrust.

I thought so, too. Those engines appear to be quite far apart. That's why the aforementioned pilot's situation struck me as odd.



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6386 posts, RR: 3
Reply 28, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 10599 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 27):
I thought so, too. Those engines appear to be quite far apart. That's why the aforementioned pilot's situation struck me as odd.

I wonder if the Tomcat had some sort of autorudder type system that mashed/trimmed the rudders for you in the event of an engine failure...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlinercair1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1322 posts, RR: 52
Reply 29, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10584 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CUSTOMER SERVICE & SUPPORT

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 25):
I once met a former F-14 Tomcat pilot who had to complete some training in a Beechcraft Duchess to remove his centerline thrust restriction.

I had the same experience with a friend of mine who flew A10's. He flies Fedex now... Kinda funny to think of somebody flying a high performance jet who can't fly a twin.



rcair1
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17040 posts, RR: 66
Reply 30, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 10505 times:

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 29):
Kinda funny to think of somebody flying a high performance jet who can't fly a twin.

It is indeed, but the engines on an F-14 or A-10 are very close to centreline comparatively speaking. And it's not all about centerline. In an F-14 or A-10 one engine has more than enough thrust to climb or whatever. I don't know if the skills acquired would help you that much for a plain vanilla multi rating, which after all assumes a light twin since a heavier twin would require a type rating.

On a light twin like a Duchess one engine is just enough power to get you to the scene of the crash. On the Apache from 1957 I did my multi rating on, with gear and flaps out one engine would get you a climb rate around negative 1200-1400fpm. Man that thing was a dog on one engine, and man did my right leg hurt after each lesson.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineDashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1528 posts, RR: 2
Reply 31, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 10366 times:

Read some stuff about the centerline thrust restriction for military guys. Something about 9 ft between the centerlines of the jetpipes and or a published Vmc for the aircraft.

User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6386 posts, RR: 3
Reply 32, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 10365 times:

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 31):
Read some stuff about the centerline thrust restriction for military guys. Something about 9 ft between the centerlines of the jetpipes and or a published Vmc for the aircraft.

IIRC, on the F-18 and the F-15 at least, Vmc is below stall speed...  



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineflightsimer From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 556 posts, RR: 1
Reply 33, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 10068 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 6):

I believe Within the last year or two, the FAA has completely gotten rid of the whole "centerline thrust only" restriction for multi engine ratings and you can only take the ride in a standard twin. This change was not going to be retroactive though as I remember reading it.

If the above is true like I believe it is, does anyone know, if you already have a private multi that was taken in a standard twin, can you take a commercial ride in a 337? I'm looking into a 337 as a leaseback to build time for my commercial tickets, but if I can't use it for the ride, it's sort of pointless. Though I could always fly the Seminole I flew for my private ride for my commercial.

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 17):
I don't want to share the actual price we paid, but it was somewhere between 100K and 200K USD.

WAY TO GO!

I was watching this very O-2A on controller for well over six months hoping it would come down in price and it never did. I believe it was even listed early last year, before this last listing, as I remember seeing the same set of pictures pop up twice with a period of time in between. And if they put what they really were advertising they put into it for restoration, then you got it for a steal.

It would have made a nice addition to our vietnam collection but we could never have afforded the listing price they had. I noticed last week it was gone along with the other one that was listed for ~82,000 but was not nearly as nice.

I'm sure you will enjoy this plane very much!



Commercial Pilot- SEL, MEL, Instrument
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17040 posts, RR: 66
Reply 34, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 10051 times:

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 33):
If the above is true like I believe it is, does anyone know, if you already have a private multi that was taken in a standard twin, can you take a commercial ride in a 337?

Interesting question. I don't know the answer, but I can tell you that getting a commercial multi is much cheaper if you get a commercial single first, then add on the multi rating. That way you don't have to demonstrate chandelles, crazy eights, power-off one-eighties and so forth in the multi. All you have to demonstrate is engine out (a lot), an approach on one engine (for instrument add-on), VMC demo and a couple of other things I forget.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineflightsimer From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 556 posts, RR: 1
Reply 35, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 9917 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 34):

All of those maneuvers are single engine aircraft only, so if you do not have a comm single, you still will not be doing them for a comm multi ride until you go for the comm single add on.



Commercial Pilot- SEL, MEL, Instrument
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17040 posts, RR: 66
Reply 36, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9862 times:

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 35):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 34):

All of those maneuvers are single engine aircraft only, so if you do not have a comm single, you still will not be doing them for a comm multi ride until you go for the comm single add on.

Ha. Don't I feel stupid. You are correct. However I did check the PTS now (as I should have done to start with) and there is a lot you can skip from your MEL checkride if you just do the add-on. Still cheaper to get SEL first.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 59
Reply 37, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9753 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

I wonder...is it possible to take your multi checkride in an aircraft without a centerline thrust restriction, but with fixed-pitch props like the Champion 402 Lancer?


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User currently offlineMHG From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 778 posts, RR: 1
Reply 38, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9754 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 37):
I wonder...is it possible to take your multi checkride in an aircraft without a centerline thrust restriction, but with fixed-pitch props like the Champion 402 Lancer?

Not really. The FAA didn´t like it for various reasons ...

Just have a look: http://www.acmp.com/blog/the-lancer-the-light-twin-that-wasnt.html



I miss the sound of rolls royce darts and speys
User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 39, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 9146 times:

Guys, sorry for not replying for so long. Had a lot of travelling lately.

In the mean time, the aircraft is now going through maintenance for a fresh annual. We hope to have it finished next week and then ferried as soon as the weather allows us to.
I thought about being on board during the ferry, as it is possibly the safest aircraft of its size to do a trans-oceanic ferry in. Flies perfectly straight and level on one engine, but has two. I am not sure I will do it as I just returned from the US and have a lot of work to do, but if I will I will of course keep you posted with pictures.

We also have met a flying museum from Dallas TX at the latest Sun'nFun who operate an O-2A who have some instructors available. The plan then is to go to Dallas for three weeks or so to get appropriate training, ratings and checkrides.

Quoting MarkusB (Reply 21):

Erik,
"The Flying Bulls" in Salzburg/Austria (LOWS) are also operating a 337.
http://www.flyingbulls.com/#/en/Aircraft/C-337-D-Push-Pull/
and if you want I could get you in touch with the guys flying and maintaining her.

That would be great! I visited Salzburg Hangar 7 last year, would be great to get a way to fly to that place and talk with the 337 guys. Would be a great photo opportunity as well.

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 33):

WAY TO GO!

I was watching this very O-2A on controller for well over six months hoping it would come down in price and it never did. I believe it was even listed early last year, before this last listing, as I remember seeing the same set of pictures pop up twice with a period of time in between. And if they put what they really were advertising they put into it for restoration, then you got it for a steal.

It's astonishing, the amount of detail that went into the restauration of this aircraft. Furthermore, we bought for over 20K of very rare original Cessna O-2A spares in mint condition. Should keep us flying for a while.

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 33):

It would have made a nice addition to our vietnam collection but we could never have afforded the listing price they had. I noticed last week it was gone along with the other one that was listed for ~82,000 but was not nearly as nice.

We were in talks about the 82.000 as well, but that deal fell through as someone else was quicker to decide.



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5520 posts, RR: 28
Reply 40, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9107 times:

Sounds outstanding; hope to meet you when you come to Dallas.


...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6386 posts, RR: 3
Reply 41, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 9036 times:

Quoting MHG (Reply 38):


Not really. The FAA didn´t like it for various reasons ...

Just have a look: http://www.acmp.com/blog/the-lancer-....html

Suprised that Contintental couldn't have been convinced to make a hollow crankshaft version of the O-200A to support a constant speed prop hub   With how tiny the prop is on just about anything powered by an O-200, I don't think the weight gain would have been that tremendous to give it props that feathered...

P.S. I vaguely recall that the US Army was interested in these as basic multi trainers in the early 1960's, and that a few of them might have actually been army birds at one point in their lives...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 42, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8322 times:

Guys,

It has been a while. The aircraft has got a new annual, and if everything goes according schedule (which it most probably won't, but still) we expect it at Teuge Airport in the week of the 15th of May.

Here two video's of the gear cycling test from last week.

Retraction:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=618712581490119

Extension:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=618713674823343

Anyone who is interested in this aircraft in whatever possible way (flying it, maintaining it, modelling it, cleaning it? ) please send me a PM with your contact details and I will send you an invitation for the arrival of the aircraft at EHTE.

Rgds,

Erik



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 43, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7181 times:

As everything in aviation it took us a bit longer than expected, but N590D has finally passed customs in BGR and is now on its way to Goose Bay.

http://www.flightradar24.com/N590D

For those interested: We expect the aircraft at EHTE monday the 3rd. Her first public display will be at the Wings Wheels & Goggles event next week. Also the RNLAF open days at Volkel are in our agenda, and we are looking into the possibility of attending the Phantom Pharewell days at Wittmund as well.



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlineairkas1 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2003, 3993 posts, RR: 55
Reply 44, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7163 times:

As a fellow Dutchie, I just want to say that this aircraft looks amazing and I'm happy you guys have such big plans for it in/around The Netherlands. Hope to see you at EHGG some time!

User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 45, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6849 times:

Quoting airkas1 (Reply 44):
Hope to see you at EHGG some time!

Kas, thank you for your kind words. Currently N590D is in BGSF, and the plan is to fly to KEF through Kulusuk today. Weather forecasts look fantastic from BGSF all the way to EHTE, so that shouldn't give us any problems.
We're out of FlightAware and FR24 coverage from now. Through Piloot & Vliegtuig and Luchtvaartnieuws we try to keep everyone posted on our latest ETA at EHTE.



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5465 posts, RR: 30
Reply 46, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6721 times:

One of my favourite aircraft of all time. It looks fast just sitting there and centerline thrust just seems to make too much sense to me. Those O-2 observer windows are a nice benefit over the stock 337.

The gear on Cessnas always amazes me. It reminds me of a puzzle ring I have...way to much going on but it seems to work.

Congrats on the plane...it looks fantastic.



What the...?
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6386 posts, RR: 3
Reply 47, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6698 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 46):
The gear on Cessnas always amazes me. It reminds me of a puzzle ring I have...way to much going on but it seems to work.

...until the gear doors go wacko on you   There are many STC's for removing the gear doors on Cessna's, and towards the end of RG production, Cessna themselves even gave up on the gear doors.



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5465 posts, RR: 30
Reply 48, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6562 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 47):

That always seemed like a sensible mod to me...on any of the high wing RG Cessnas...a couple fewer potentially inconvenient bits of tin not to worry about seems like a good thing.



What the...?
User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 49, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6353 times:

N590D arrived yesterday after an uneventful flight across the Northern Atlantic.

Today we were able to do a first short training flight during which the ferry pilot familiarized our instructor with the airplane, so he can continue to share that knowledge in the future with the other pilots.

Some pictures can be found in my dedicated Teuge-photostream here. I am not even trying to get any of them uploaded here on airliners.net, I have given up on that years ago..

http://www.flickr.com/photos/planeblogger/sets/72157630571328986/

It will participate with Wings, Wheels & Goggles at Teuge coming weekend, and it will also be on the static show of the RNLAF airshow at Volkel (EHVK) in two weeks.



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 50, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6354 times:

After an uneventful ferryflight across the Northern Atlantic, managed by the great guys from Alpha2Bravo
(I promised them to give them some recognition for the great work they did)
N590D landed yesterday at Teuge Airport (EHTE).

Today the weather was nice, so we asked the ferry pilot to do a short checkflight with our instructor before he leaves tomorrow so we have at least one pilot with experience on the aircraft now, who is able to familiarize the others with it.

Pictures can be found in my dedicated Teuge-photostream here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/planeblogger/sets/72157630571328986/

I am not even going to try to upload them to this website, one can handle being rejected only for a certain number of times and I have passed that point a long time ago.  

The aircraft will be on static coming WingsWheels&Goggles, which will be held at Teuge Airport coming weekend.
Next week we will be on static on the open days of the RNLAF at Volkel Airbase (EHVK).



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
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