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What Happens When A Visual Checkpoint Goes Kaboom?  
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6384 posts, RR: 3
Posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6909 times:

Just wondering...

The ASARCO smokestacks (a visual checkpoint when approaching ELP) are being demolished tomorrow morning at 6:30 AM, MDT...

http://www.elpasotimes.com/asarco

According to the current sectional, they are still a visual checkpoint when approaching ELP  http://vfrmap.com/?type=vfrc&lat=31.807&lon=-106.376&zoom=10

"Cessna 2809Q, Report rubble pile, expect Visual Approach RWY 26L"   


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineintsim From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6806 times:

Khln had its stacks removed a few years ago. Growing up listening to a scanner I don't know how many times pilots were supposed to report something to do with those stacks. Good luck with the change!

http://m.billingsgazette.com/news/st...01cc4c03286.html?mobile_touch=true


User currently onlinetb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1597 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6768 times:

Are those the ones by Sunland Park Racetrack? Maybe they can call over that now, it's pretty close and has a sizable "lake" on the infield making it fairly recognizable.


Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6384 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6721 times:

Quoting tb727 (Reply 2):
Are those the ones by Sunland Park Racetrack? Maybe they can call over that now, it's pretty close and has a sizable "lake" on the infield making it fairly recognizable.

Kinda sorta...I'd put Sunland Park about 3-4 miles NNW of ASARCO. That is indeed a lake. When my dad would take me to the race track, they'd have water ski stunts between the races on that lake   ASARCO was across the border from Mexico, while Sunland Park is north of the Mexican border. The river separates Texas from New Mexico by the racetrack.

There also used to be an airport next to the racetrack, but the high water table near the river caused the runway to sink   Doña Ana County, New Mexico built the Santa Teresa airport to replace the old Sunland Park airport...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6384 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6720 times:

Wondering who did all the awesome flying for this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2e7OWMu2Bsg

 



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2403 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 6561 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Thread starter):
"Cessna 2809Q, Report rubble pile, expect Visual Approach RWY 26L"

  

Which brings me to the question which changes have to be announced in a NOTAM, and if pilots have to check all NOTAMs for a given airport or route.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 4):
Wondering who did all the awesome flying for this video:

From that youtube link: "Most of it was shot with a Sony PJ790V from a Paramotor, others were ground shots and some were from a Quadcopter! Thanks for watching!"


David



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6384 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6050 times:

Interestingly enough, three days later and no NOTAMs issued regarding the now nonexistent visual checkpoint...although I assume all the ELP Tracon and tower controllers are aware of the situation   I would think that they will need to establish a new checkpoint for traffic entering the ELP class C from downtown, as the mountain blocks radar returns from aircraft flying on the westide of the Franklin Mountains (hence, the cut off shape of the ELP class C airspace). I would think the controllers wouldn't want aircraft showing up on the TRACON radar unexpectedly. The Visual checkpoint used to give the Approach controller warning that you were about to show up on their scope in close proximity to the airport...


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2760 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5998 times:

How about using the Sun Bowl? That's not too far from the stacks depicted on the sectional chart.


It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6384 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5921 times:

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 7):
How about using the Sun Bowl? That's not too far from the stacks depicted on the sectional chart.

I suppose, but remember, too, it's Texas. There's LOTS of football fields on the Westside of El Paso   I guess the Sun Bowl is a little more prominent than all the junior high and high school stadiums...but on Friday night during football season...  



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5519 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5891 times:

Reminds me of the old "Stadium Visual" approach to KDAL's 13R- no longer valid when three years back, they demoed it (Texas Stadium).


...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineasqx From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 615 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5794 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 6):
Interestingly enough, three days later and no NOTAMs issued regarding the now nonexistent visual checkpoint

NOTAMs aren't usually issued just because a landmark is demolished, even if it's a VFR reporting point. It will simply be deleted from the chart on the next cycle. It's probable that there may be, or have been for a limited time, a notice at the end of the ATIS stating the stacks have been demolished, but that usually won't get published.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 6):
I would think the controllers wouldn't want aircraft showing up on the TRACON radar unexpectedly. The Visual checkpoint used to give the Approach controller warning that you were about to show up on their scope in close proximity to the airport...

Well, if you intend to enter Class C you should be calling approach within 20 NM to begin with, so you should already have been in contact prior to reaching the stacks. Approach could just as easily give you an instruction to report 6 miles west of the field, which would put you very near the stacks location.


User currently offlineatct From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2293 posts, RR: 38
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5542 times:

In this case it probably fell into a cloud of rubble and dust.


As a controller at a Class C, you don't need to use a reporting point. Use a mileage and compass from the airport. I have this thing called a radar scope and when I give you a code, I see you instantaneously.

atct



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6384 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5454 times:

Quoting atct (Reply 11):
As a controller at a Class C, you don't need to use a reporting point. Use a mileage and compass from the airport. I have this thing called a radar scope and when I give you a code, I see you instantaneously.

atct

Unfortunately, as in the case of the El Paso Class C, mountains tend to absorb radar beams...   Especially when approaching from the west. And if you're not below the height of the peaks of the Franklin Mountains, you're too high for landing...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineatct From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2293 posts, RR: 38
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 14 hours ago) and read 5313 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 12):
Unfortunately, as in the case of the El Paso Class C, mountains tend to absorb radar beams... Especially when approaching from the west. And if you're not below the height of the peaks of the Franklin Mountains, you're too high for landing...


I flew corporate all over west texas, I am very familiar with El Paso. I also work in a place surrounded on all sides by mountains. We still use primary and secondary radar. VFR reporting points are pointless (no pun intended) with secondary radar capabilities. The only time they are used is for non mode C aircraft to give us a general idea of where to look for a primary target. You can identify a target with a geographical fix that is displayed on the radar scope when given the direction of flight from the pilot. Most of us just give a squawk code and wait to see a code change for identification. Some even go as far as to say squawk and then ident (which is pointless, but some people still do it).



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3761 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5216 times:

In a world where virtually every GA aircraft has a GPS installed, I doubt anybody ever bothered to check whether the smoke stacks were even there when they were still indeed there...

And if it is a Class B airspace, the controller knows where you are better than you do.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4982 posts, RR: 42
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5170 times:

On that note ... are the "Maspeth Tanks" still there?


Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineGoBoeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2698 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5093 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 15):
On that note ... are the "Maspeth Tanks" still there?
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/09/ny...arry-love-hate-reputation-end.html

But there are now two smaller white tanks near where they were. Expressway Visual 31 now just uses them instead of the older tanks. "2500 'til the the tanks cleared Expressway visual 31..."

I joked to the f/o a few weeks ago, what if they were just huge cardboard white tank looking things with nothing in them at all, put there just so we can fly the visual to 31?  


User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2760 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4958 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 8):
I suppose, but remember, too, it's Texas. There's LOTS of football fields on the Westside of El Paso

LOL

I suppose a football field doesn't really stand out in Texas.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1545 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4888 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 14):
In a world where virtually every GA aircraft has a GPS installed, I doubt anybody ever bothered to check whether the smoke stacks were even there when they were still indeed there..

Maybe in France, not in the US. A vast majority of GA planes don't have GPS.

-DiamondFlyer


User currently offlineYQBexYHZBGM From Canada, joined May 2009, 204 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (11 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2862 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 15):
On that note ... are the "Maspeth Tanks" still there?

I always heard them referred to as the Elmhurst Tanks (in Queens, New York, adjacent to the Long Island Expressway, on approach to LGA). These were large, expandable gas tanks with a red and white steel skeleton frame surrounding them. But whatever they're called, Maspeth or Elmhurst, they've been gone for quite a few years now.

Al

[Edited 2013-09-24 19:00:31]

User currently offlineonetogo From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (11 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2840 times:

Gawd I hope "The Tanks" for the expressway visual never go away. That would be a mess. Although I suppose "DIALS" supports them alright.

User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6835 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2612 times:

Quoting YQBexYHZBGM (Reply 19):
I always heard them referred to as the Elmhurst Tanks

You're thinking of the tanks that used to be at 40.730N 73.885W. The tanks beneath the LGA runway 4 approach were fixed, not expandable, with red/white checkerboard tops at 40.7186N 73.9337W.

[Edited 2013-09-25 10:58:14]

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