Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
What Happens When A Visual Checkpoint Goes Kaboom?  
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6343 posts, RR: 3
Posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6847 times:

Just wondering...

The ASARCO smokestacks (a visual checkpoint when approaching ELP) are being demolished tomorrow morning at 6:30 AM, MDT...

http://www.elpasotimes.com/asarco

According to the current sectional, they are still a visual checkpoint when approaching ELP  http://vfrmap.com/?type=vfrc&lat=31.807&lon=-106.376&zoom=10

"Cessna 2809Q, Report rubble pile, expect Visual Approach RWY 26L"   


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineintsim From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6744 times:

Khln had its stacks removed a few years ago. Growing up listening to a scanner I don't know how many times pilots were supposed to report something to do with those stacks. Good luck with the change!

http://m.billingsgazette.com/news/st...01cc4c03286.html?mobile_touch=true


User currently offlinetb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1576 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 6706 times:

Are those the ones by Sunland Park Racetrack? Maybe they can call over that now, it's pretty close and has a sizable "lake" on the infield making it fairly recognizable.


Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6343 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 6659 times:

Quoting tb727 (Reply 2):
Are those the ones by Sunland Park Racetrack? Maybe they can call over that now, it's pretty close and has a sizable "lake" on the infield making it fairly recognizable.

Kinda sorta...I'd put Sunland Park about 3-4 miles NNW of ASARCO. That is indeed a lake. When my dad would take me to the race track, they'd have water ski stunts between the races on that lake   ASARCO was across the border from Mexico, while Sunland Park is north of the Mexican border. The river separates Texas from New Mexico by the racetrack.

There also used to be an airport next to the racetrack, but the high water table near the river caused the runway to sink   Doña Ana County, New Mexico built the Santa Teresa airport to replace the old Sunland Park airport...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6343 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 6658 times:

Wondering who did all the awesome flying for this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2e7OWMu2Bsg

 



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2307 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6499 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Thread starter):
"Cessna 2809Q, Report rubble pile, expect Visual Approach RWY 26L"

  

Which brings me to the question which changes have to be announced in a NOTAM, and if pilots have to check all NOTAMs for a given airport or route.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 4):
Wondering who did all the awesome flying for this video:

From that youtube link: "Most of it was shot with a Sony PJ790V from a Paramotor, others were ground shots and some were from a Quadcopter! Thanks for watching!"


David



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6343 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5988 times:

Interestingly enough, three days later and no NOTAMs issued regarding the now nonexistent visual checkpoint...although I assume all the ELP Tracon and tower controllers are aware of the situation   I would think that they will need to establish a new checkpoint for traffic entering the ELP class C from downtown, as the mountain blocks radar returns from aircraft flying on the westide of the Franklin Mountains (hence, the cut off shape of the ELP class C airspace). I would think the controllers wouldn't want aircraft showing up on the TRACON radar unexpectedly. The Visual checkpoint used to give the Approach controller warning that you were about to show up on their scope in close proximity to the airport...


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2745 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5936 times:

How about using the Sun Bowl? That's not too far from the stacks depicted on the sectional chart.


It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6343 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5859 times:

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 7):
How about using the Sun Bowl? That's not too far from the stacks depicted on the sectional chart.

I suppose, but remember, too, it's Texas. There's LOTS of football fields on the Westside of El Paso   I guess the Sun Bowl is a little more prominent than all the junior high and high school stadiums...but on Friday night during football season...  



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5489 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5829 times:

Reminds me of the old "Stadium Visual" approach to KDAL's 13R- no longer valid when three years back, they demoed it (Texas Stadium).


...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineasqx From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5732 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 6):
Interestingly enough, three days later and no NOTAMs issued regarding the now nonexistent visual checkpoint

NOTAMs aren't usually issued just because a landmark is demolished, even if it's a VFR reporting point. It will simply be deleted from the chart on the next cycle. It's probable that there may be, or have been for a limited time, a notice at the end of the ATIS stating the stacks have been demolished, but that usually won't get published.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 6):
I would think the controllers wouldn't want aircraft showing up on the TRACON radar unexpectedly. The Visual checkpoint used to give the Approach controller warning that you were about to show up on their scope in close proximity to the airport...

Well, if you intend to enter Class C you should be calling approach within 20 NM to begin with, so you should already have been in contact prior to reaching the stacks. Approach could just as easily give you an instruction to report 6 miles west of the field, which would put you very near the stacks location.


User currently offlineatct From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2267 posts, RR: 38
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5480 times:

In this case it probably fell into a cloud of rubble and dust.


As a controller at a Class C, you don't need to use a reporting point. Use a mileage and compass from the airport. I have this thing called a radar scope and when I give you a code, I see you instantaneously.

atct



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6343 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 5392 times:

Quoting atct (Reply 11):
As a controller at a Class C, you don't need to use a reporting point. Use a mileage and compass from the airport. I have this thing called a radar scope and when I give you a code, I see you instantaneously.

atct

Unfortunately, as in the case of the El Paso Class C, mountains tend to absorb radar beams...   Especially when approaching from the west. And if you're not below the height of the peaks of the Franklin Mountains, you're too high for landing...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineatct From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2267 posts, RR: 38
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5251 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 12):
Unfortunately, as in the case of the El Paso Class C, mountains tend to absorb radar beams... Especially when approaching from the west. And if you're not below the height of the peaks of the Franklin Mountains, you're too high for landing...


I flew corporate all over west texas, I am very familiar with El Paso. I also work in a place surrounded on all sides by mountains. We still use primary and secondary radar. VFR reporting points are pointless (no pun intended) with secondary radar capabilities. The only time they are used is for non mode C aircraft to give us a general idea of where to look for a primary target. You can identify a target with a geographical fix that is displayed on the radar scope when given the direction of flight from the pilot. Most of us just give a squawk code and wait to see a code change for identification. Some even go as far as to say squawk and then ident (which is pointless, but some people still do it).



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently onlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3736 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5154 times:

In a world where virtually every GA aircraft has a GPS installed, I doubt anybody ever bothered to check whether the smoke stacks were even there when they were still indeed there...

And if it is a Class B airspace, the controller knows where you are better than you do.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4913 posts, RR: 43
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5108 times:

On that note ... are the "Maspeth Tanks" still there?


Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineGoBoeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2682 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5031 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 15):
On that note ... are the "Maspeth Tanks" still there?
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/09/ny...arry-love-hate-reputation-end.html

But there are now two smaller white tanks near where they were. Expressway Visual 31 now just uses them instead of the older tanks. "2500 'til the the tanks cleared Expressway visual 31..."

I joked to the f/o a few weeks ago, what if they were just huge cardboard white tank looking things with nothing in them at all, put there just so we can fly the visual to 31?  


User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2745 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4896 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 8):
I suppose, but remember, too, it's Texas. There's LOTS of football fields on the Westside of El Paso

LOL

I suppose a football field doesn't really stand out in Texas.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1508 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4826 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 14):
In a world where virtually every GA aircraft has a GPS installed, I doubt anybody ever bothered to check whether the smoke stacks were even there when they were still indeed there..

Maybe in France, not in the US. A vast majority of GA planes don't have GPS.

-DiamondFlyer


User currently offlineYQBexYHZBGM From Canada, joined May 2009, 204 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (10 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2800 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 15):
On that note ... are the "Maspeth Tanks" still there?

I always heard them referred to as the Elmhurst Tanks (in Queens, New York, adjacent to the Long Island Expressway, on approach to LGA). These were large, expandable gas tanks with a red and white steel skeleton frame surrounding them. But whatever they're called, Maspeth or Elmhurst, they've been gone for quite a few years now.

Al

[Edited 2013-09-24 19:00:31]

User currently offlineonetogo From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2778 times:

Gawd I hope "The Tanks" for the expressway visual never go away. That would be a mess. Although I suppose "DIALS" supports them alright.

User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6785 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (10 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2550 times:

Quoting YQBexYHZBGM (Reply 19):
I always heard them referred to as the Elmhurst Tanks

You're thinking of the tanks that used to be at 40.730N 73.885W. The tanks beneath the LGA runway 4 approach were fixed, not expandable, with red/white checkerboard tops at 40.7186N 73.9337W.

[Edited 2013-09-25 10:58:14]

Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic What Happens When A Visual Checkpoint Goes Kaboom?
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
North/South Ops: What Happens When East/West Winds posted Mon Jun 8 2009 10:20:22 by Flaps30
What's a D check and what happens when it does happen? posted Sun Aug 29 2004 03:43:00 by Aerosvit
What Happens When Aircraft Is Damaged? posted Thu Feb 28 2002 01:38:56 by Tbar220
What Happens At The Gate When Boarding Is Done? posted Sun Jan 29 2012 13:14:42 by LAX888
What Happens To An A/c When It Is Retired? posted Sun Jan 31 2010 15:32:45 by C5LOAD
What Happens To Crews When Airlines Stops? posted Sat Apr 5 2008 20:39:23 by Fvyfireman
What Happens If A Crew Goes Over Time - Midflight? posted Mon Dec 10 2007 06:29:56 by Jamesbuk
What Happens To Pre-booked Seats When A/c Changes? posted Mon Jul 31 2006 01:49:16 by Jafa39
What Happens To Crewmembers Involved In Accidents? posted Fri Dec 21 2012 15:30:53 by rolypolyman
What Happens Before The A/c Heads For The Desert? posted Tue Mar 13 2012 17:12:00 by bridge

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format