Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Boeing 747-8 Passenger Windows  
User currently offlinepropilot83 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 604 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6738 times:

Recently I was wondering why Boeing did not design the passenger windows of the Boeing 747-8i and -8F like that of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner? And what I mean by this is the fact that on the 747-8i and -8F I haven't noticed that you can just click a button to dim the windows from light to dark and so forth like that of the 787 Dreamliner. I thought it would be interesting if Boeing could re-design the windows of the Boeing 747-8i and -8F like that of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, where you can just press a button to dim the windows instead of having to pull down sleeves, this would definitely conserve fuel and reduce weight, but this crossed my mind, because the Boeing 747-8i and -8F engine chevrons are like that of the 787, and so does anyone know why Boeing has not designed the passenger windows of the 747-8i and -8F like that of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner?

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6701 times:

Quoting propilot83 (Thread starter):
I thought it would be interesting if Boeing could re-design the windows of the Boeing 747-8i and -8F like that of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, where you can just press a button to dim the windows instead of having to pull down sleeves, this would definitely conserve fuel and reduce weight, but this crossed my mind, because the Boeing 747-8i and -8F engine chevrons are like that of the 787, and so does anyone know why Boeing has not designed the passenger windows of the 747-8i and -8F like that of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner?

I'm not sure it would save weight. There's additional wiring required to get dimmable windows that counters the weight of the shade. I don't know if there is a weight savings or not on an existing airplane.

The real reason is cost. The aluminum structure of the 747 will not support windows that are the size of the 787 window. They did put in different windows that are more ovular. Replacing the window shades would require a significant amount of redesign work and analysis. That's a cost that has marginable impact. On a new design, it is easy to switch to a different design, but on an existing program, the cost has to be justified. While the cool factor is important, the costs are likely too high since there's no electrical wiring in that area on a 747. The 747-8 does have revised sidewalls, window outline and window reveals so it looks fresher.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineRonaldo747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 389 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6690 times:

The 747-8i has the windows of the 777 which are already larger than the 744 windows.

User currently offlinepropilot83 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 604 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6591 times:

Thanks for the input guys, appreciate it, learned a lot, thanks, peace out!

User currently online747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2178 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6422 times:

Here is a size-comparison of the two types of passenger windows

777/747-8 and original 747-1/2/3/4 window comparison.



Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5873 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6044 times:

Not to mention, the window shades weigh virtually nothing. They're a cheaply made, thin piece of plastic, which is prone to breaking, and can be thrown across the maintenance hangar like a frisbee, with great results.

Don't ask me how I know that.


User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1881 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5830 times:

You have to consider how many windows you're spreading your design and development investment over. There will probably be over 100,000 787 windows made. Not so many 748 windows.


Andy Goetsch
User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2155 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5807 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 1):
. The aluminum structure of the 747 will not support windows that are the size of the 787 window.

From what I know the size of the windows is dependent on the location of the stringer just above and below the window belt. Did they relocate those stringers? If they did not then they might not had the room to do more than they did.

bt



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5799 times:

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 7):

From what I know the size of the windows is dependent on the location of the stringer just above and below the window belt. Did they relocate those stringers? If they did not then they might not had the room to do more than they did.

I don't think they spread the stringers or frames farther apart. That's a significant structural redesign.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25638 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5689 times:

[/quote]

Quoting Ronaldo747 (Reply 2):
The 747-8i has the windows of the 777 which are already larger than the 744 windows.

The 764 also uses the 777 windows. That was a fairly big design change (among others) for only 38 764s built as it also involved changes to the fuselage structure.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5547 times:

Quoting propilot83 (Thread starter):
can just click a button to dim the windows from light to dark

I heard these were not so reliable on the B787,ANA was reconsidering using the shades.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 5):
can be thrown across the maintenance hangar like a frisbee

Interesting...Hope it was with the u/s ones  



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineflyingclrs727 From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 733 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5476 times:

I noticed the 747-8 aircraft doors still had the old fashioned windows the 747-100 inherited from the 707. I guess it was too expensive to modify and recertify them.

User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3625 posts, RR: 27
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5433 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 7):
Did they relocate those stringers?

they may have redesigned the casting for a new alloy that will fit the existing space..


User currently offlinebrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3015 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5418 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 5):
and can be thrown across the maintenance hangar like a frisbee, with great results.

Don't ask me how I know that.

Dang you! Now I had to explain to my fiance why I was laughing 



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently online747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2178 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5397 times:

On the 747-8F the six upper deck windows are not modified and are still of the "old" 747 type.


Original uploaded by Jon Ostrower, see for other sizes : http://www.flickr.com/photos/flightb...348107426/in/set-72157623280980561


On the 747-8 Intercontinental all upperdeck and main deck windows are built according the new design.


Original uploaded by Jon Ostrower, see ffor other sizes : http://www.flickr.com/photos/flightb...845045453/in/set-72157626865197395

For all 747-8 series : the windows installed at the main entry doors are not modified.


Original uploaded by Jon Ostrower, for other sizes, see : http://www.flickr.com/photos/flightb...444286939/in/set-72157625921187877

On the picture below from the inside of the upper deck structure, it's clearly visible that the new windows are already a "tight fit".
Installation of larger 787 style windows would require a costly re-design of the basic aircraft structure (stringers, etc.) and re-certification.


Original uploaded by Jon Ostrower, for other sizes, see : http://www.flickr.com/photos/flightb...444250409/in/set-72157625921187877

[Edited 2013-05-08 01:06:22]


Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5873 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4950 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
Interesting...Hope it was with the u/s ones

Meh. Either way, they install just fine. And playing frisbee with them helps to sling off the dust that accumulates while they're in stock.  
Quoting flyingclrs727 (Reply 11):
I noticed the 747-8 aircraft doors still had the old fashioned windows the 747-100 inherited from the 707. I guess it was too expensive to modify and recertify them.

Doors and door certification is a nightmare; you will almost never, ever, ever see any mods done to a door. Hence the 737-900 is still using the same L1 door as the 737-100. It's no longer certificable, due to excessive opening force required to operate it, but the existing design is grandfathered in.
Why pay money to recert a 748 door when you can just leave it as-is, with only a few people noticing the inconsistency? I think that's their line of thought there.

Quoting brons2 (Reply 13):
Dang you! Now I had to explain to my fiance why I was laughing 

I'm here all week!


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4587 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 15):
Meh. Either way, they install just fine. And playing frisbee with them helps to sling off the dust that accumulates while they're in stock

On a new pane, it would be unadvisable.....  



Think of the brighter side!
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Boeing 747-8 Passenger Windows
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Boeing 747-100 Having 2 Vs 3 Windows posted Wed Aug 4 2010 16:52:20 by airlinereporter
Boeing 747-400 (pax) Load And Trim Sheet posted Fri Apr 19 2013 20:30:14 by igorland
Boeing 747 Variable Numbers And Roll Out Dates posted Sat Aug 6 2011 09:15:01 by MADabout747
Boeing 747 Series Receives AD posted Mon May 16 2011 03:54:36 by Chamonix
Boeing 747-8i Questions posted Sat Sep 18 2010 12:31:53 by GearDownFlaps30
Boeing 747-8 Freighter Achieves Initial Airworthin posted Fri Mar 12 2010 12:56:02 by ProPilot83
Boeing 747 Pitch Up On Touchdown posted Mon Nov 9 2009 18:05:09 by Reggaebird
Boeing 747-8 Landing Gear Delivery Picture posted Sun Jul 26 2009 15:14:18 by PPVRA
Boeing 747 Slats posted Sun May 3 2009 01:01:21 by Propilot83
Boeing 747 Altitude Control System posted Fri Dec 12 2008 18:08:17 by ANITIX87

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format