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How Many Planes Are Required To Fly A Destination  
User currently offlinea380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1112 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4825 times:

How many planes of one type are required to fly a round trip 7 days a week to a destination that is 4000NM away? 7500NM? I wonder... What are the parameters?

10 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineapjung From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4772 times:

I would say at least 3 (ie. SFO-TPE-SFO on UA when the route resumes in June 2014)


Andy P. Jung
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15745 posts, RR: 27
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4712 times:

Quoting a380900 (Thread starter):
What are the parameters?

If you can make the round trip in less than 24 hours you need one plane. 24-48 needs two planes, which of course ignores maintenance requirements. That said, rotating planes around can be far more efficient. For instance, you wouldn't have a plane returning from a 30 hour round trip sit around for 18 hours until it leaves again, you'll send it somewhere else. (Not that some planes don't sit for long periods of time, but they are usually undertaking some maintenance during the downtime)



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineapjung From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4275 times:

Quoting apjung (Reply 1):

Correction, I meant March 31, 2014.



Andy P. Jung
User currently offlinebabaero From Philippines, joined Jan 2002, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3788 times:

When CX first launched HKG JFK non stop before the 777ERs arrived, they had and only need three A340-600s to maintain a daily service

User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3005 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3711 times:
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Distance is not really the criteria but rather block times plus maintenance down time and rotation through the network.

A further consideration are the terminals at each end slot restricted or curfew restricted.

Simplistically speaking any route that cycles over 24 hours will require more than one frame allocation by definition.

Routes between 12 -24 hour might be operable with a single frame however more commonly two aircraft will be cycled on a long and mid haul route combination.

Over 28 hour (Basically Europe- Antipodes) needs a minimum of 3 frames however in reality you would require a further frame for downtime and again rotating over a shorter intermediate route.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7538 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3118 times:

LHR-BOM is 3,899 nm on the great circle route. BA's 10:55 LHR departure for BOM arrives at 00:35. The return flight departs at 02:35 and arrives back at LHR at 07:30, 3hrs and 25 mins on the clock before its original departure time. So one aircraft could operate this near 4,000 nm flight six days a week (leaving a day for routine maintenance).

User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 883 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2882 times:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 5):
Over 28 hour (Basically Europe- Antipodes) needs a minimum of 3 frames however in reality you would require a further frame for downtime and again rotating over a shorter intermediate route.

  
That's how the Air NZ fleet of five 77W's is used:
AKL-LAX-LHR-LAX-AKL (Daily) NZ2/NZ1 (3 aircraft)
AKL-LAX-AKL (ex Tue) NZ6/NZ5 (2 aircraft) -- Tue is a 77E

Aircraft dep AKL in the evening and return in the morning three/two days later. Downtime available is Tue morning to Thu evening. Two aircraft at AKL each morning doing an AKL-BNE-AKL, AKL-MEL-AKL or AKL-NAN-AKL most days before heading back to LAX that night.

Next year the fleet increases to seven 77W's with the 744 replaced AKL-SFO-AKL (Daily or ex Tue) NZ8/NZ7 (2 aircraft).

PA515


User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6873 posts, RR: 75
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2830 times:

4000NM? I'm assuming that's air distance... in still air it would be Give and take 9H30 to 10hrs... so that's 20hrs return plus 2 hours on each end... so that makes it 1 aircraft...
But when you add maintenance, slots etc, 2 is the minimum, mix it with another shorter route.

7500NM? You'll need 2 minimum, most likely 3... if nonstop. If not, then 3 minimum...

So have all the above, then add timezone differences, airport operating hours, slot availability, etc... and it would screw up the above numbers   



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9643 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2728 times:

Most airlines don't operate their planes on isolated routes. The airplanes usually freely rotate throughout the network. So while if the block time is under 10 hours, it could only require 2 planes, technically it isn't a one for one relationship. Maintenance needs some extended ground time once a week and then more significant maintenance every two or three months.

When an airline adds a route they look at their spare aircraft, downtime and extended ground time to see how to schedule the flight. The more time the plane is in the air, the poorer the reliability. Each airline is different.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25356 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2509 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 9):
Most airlines don't operate their planes on isolated routes. The airplanes usually freely rotate throughout the network.

Example of routing of one AC 77W (C-FITU) since April 30 from Flightradar24:

YYZ-PVG-YYZ-CDG-YUL-CDG-YYZ-PEK-YYZ-CDG-YUL-CDG-YYZ-CDG-YUL-CDG-YYZ-PEK-YYZ-CDG-YUL-FRA-YYZ-NRT-YYZ-LHR


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