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Self Contained Air Stairs  
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11133 posts, RR: 15
Posted (11 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 16228 times:

Funny how the "Taxiing from the gate" thread is up. I was just thinking the other day that not many airports have a need for equipment with self-contained air stairs. They were mainly on the DC-9/MD-80s, Caravelle, 727, and 737-200s. Besides the RJs and turboprops, are there any self-contained air stairs on any jets anymore?


Life in the wall is a drag.
85 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5887 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (11 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 16237 times:

Doesn't Ryanair have them on its planes?


When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9970 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (11 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 16215 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 1):
Doesn't Ryanair have them on its planes?

And they probably charge the passengers for their use, either boarding or deplaning  



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineFlyingGoat From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (11 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 16203 times:

The BBJ is still available with the air stairs.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24084 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (11 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 16205 times:

Quoting seb146 (Thread starter):
Besides the RJs and turboprops, are there any self-contained air stairs on any jets anymore?
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 1):
Doesn't Ryanair have them on its planes?

Photos of Ryanair 738s.


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User currently offlineBatonOps From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 741 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (11 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 16096 times:

The BAC 1-11 had them. If I remember correctly the main cabin door had to be open before you could deploy the stairs.

User currently offlinecv880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1098 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (11 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 16037 times:

Quoting BatonOps (Reply 5):
The BAC 1-11 had them. If I remember correctly the main cabin door had to be open before you could deploy the stairs.

Viscounts, Electras, Martin 404, CV440, F-27, YS-11, first orders of DC-9's/727's, DC-3, current B747's used as AF One.

[Edited 2013-05-11 18:23:08]

User currently offlineBAeRJ100 From Australia, joined Nov 2011, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (11 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 15971 times:

Quoting BatonOps (Reply 5):
The BAC 1-11 had them. If I remember correctly the main cabin door had to be open before you could deploy the stairs.

Same with the BAe 146/Avro RJ, the slide cover blocks the railing for the stairs, meaning the door needs to be opened fully for the stairs to be pulled out of its stowage. Additionally (and interestingly), the 146 could have airstairs at either the front or rear doors, not just the front.


User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3140 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (11 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 15921 times:

Air Force One has a self-contained airstair. IL-86 does too.

http://www.wingweb.co.uk/wingweb/img/Air_Force_One_VC-25A.jpg

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/3/1/6/0914613.jpg



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 5968 posts, RR: 27
Reply 9, posted (11 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 15827 times:
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Quoting cv880 (Reply 6):
first orders of DC-9's

I remember the Ozark DC-9s and their air stairs, when I flew out of SGF as a kid.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5554 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 15816 times:

Quoting cv880 (Reply 6):
Quoting BatonOps (Reply 5):
The BAC 1-11 had them. If I remember correctly the main cabin door had to be open before you could deploy the stairs.

Viscounts, Electras, Martin 404, CV440, F-27

F27!!! Are you sure? You could step directly to/from the ground on an F27, although small airstairs were usually used. Did you mean F28?

Gemuser



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User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11133 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 15663 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 10):
F27!!! Are you sure? You could step directly to/from the ground on an F27, although small airstairs were usually used. Did you mean F28?

Both. I remember when QX had both F27 and F28. There were a few short steps in the rear of the F27.

EDIT:

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?id=0384837

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 8):
IL-86 does too

And the IL-96, IIRC.

[Edited 2013-05-11 19:46:28]


Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2630 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 15598 times:

Quoting BAeRJ100 (Reply 7):
Same with the BAe 146/Avro RJ, the slide cover blocks the railing for the stairs, meaning the door needs to be opened fully for the stairs to be pulled out of its stowage. Additionally (and interestingly), the 146 could have airstairs at either the front or rear doors, not just the front.

The self contained airstairs were an option on the 146. An airline I used to work for had the 146's and they did not have self contained airstairs. We used jetways or wheeled stairs to the plane.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 10):
F27!!! Are you sure? You could step directly to/from the ground on an F27, although small airstairs were usually used.

There is currently a topic in tech/ops about this. FH-227 /F-27 Doors (by B777UA Apr 28 2013 in Tech Ops)

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 8):
Air Force One has a self-contained airstair. IL-86 does too.

There were a couple L-1011's with them also.

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User currently offlineantonovman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 719 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 15599 times:

Many years ago a british holiday airline called Courtline had them on their L1011 s and i think they came out of the lower galley.
I saw a picture once


User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5554 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (11 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 15428 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 11):
Both. I remember when QX had both F27 and F28. There were a few short steps in the rear of the F27.

EDIT:http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?id=0384837

Well you learn something every day on airliners.net! I certainly never saw them on TAA & the Ansett Group, although both had so many F27 I won't say none of their airframes had them.

Gemuser



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User currently offlinecv880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1098 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (11 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 15301 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 14):
Well you learn something every day on airliners.net! I certainly never saw them on TAA & the Ansett Group, although both had so many F27 I won't say none of their airframes had them.
http://www.deltamuseum.org/M_Educati..._DeltaHistory_Aircraft_FH-227B.htm


User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (11 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 15251 times:

COs (former PEs) 737-100s had them....our aft jumpseat was a/c right on those planes....ricket a** things...'double knock" anyone?  


You can't cure stupid
User currently onlineTurkishWings From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1436 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (11 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 15040 times:

TK 737-400 also had/has self contained stairs...


Coffee - Tea or Me?
User currently offlinebeau222 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (11 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 14779 times:

I have seen a private B757 with a self contained set of stairs

User currently offlineloranfair From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (11 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 14725 times:

I believe the airstairs were only on the Fairchild F-27s and FH-227s, not the Fokker F.27s. I have also seen 737-200s with airstairs on both the L1 and L2 doors.

User currently offlineLHRBFSTrident From UK - Northern Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 653 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (11 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 14550 times:

British Airways had L1 airstairs on their BAC1-11s - except the LHR-based -510s - apparently they were removed to save weight and maintenance costs - except they found they needed to add ballast to counteract the weight difference. There was a rumour in BA that there were 20-odd shipsets of 1-11 airstairs lying around somewhere at Heathrow [ TB(A,B,C, etc)].

The BHX-based -400s and -539s retained the L1 airstairs as delivered - not sure about the MAN-based a/c...



Next up: LAX-LHR NZ002 Y SkyCouch! LHR-LAX NZ001 Y
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5639 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 13762 times:

They are an option on all 737-NG aircraft...
They were standard up through the -500, but were made optional with the NG to save the outrageous weight and maintenance costs. Hated those things!!!


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 6956 posts, RR: 57
Reply 22, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 13687 times:

Didn't the DC9 have airstairs at the very rear of the aircraft?


The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineDIJKKIJK From France, joined Jul 2003, 1747 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 13622 times:

The 727, DC9 and Caravelle had built-in air stairs in the rear. But the ones in the 727 uniquely, had a dual function. They could support the airplane's weight and prevent the aircraft's nose from going up, if something went wrong during loading/unloading on ground.


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User currently offlineKL5147 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 13419 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 22):

They had, but I believe a few of the series 10 did not



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User currently offlineedina From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 736 posts, RR: 9
Reply 25, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 14194 times:

Quoting antonovman (Reply 13):

The Court aircraft had air stairs that extended from the hold on the right hand side of the aircraft and aligned with door 3 right.......it was the PSA aircraft that had air stairs from what was the lower lounge.



Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
User currently offlineBthebest From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (11 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 14241 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 21):
They were standard up through the -500, but were made optional with the NG to save the outrageous weight and maintenance costs.

That's why its surprising to find Ryanair with them, but they obviously did the sums and decided it was cheaper than paying for ground equipment. Do all Ryanair a/c have them or just a subfleet for specifc routes?


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5639 posts, RR: 11
Reply 27, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 14449 times:

Quoting Bthebest (Reply 26):
That's why its surprising to find Ryanair with them, but they obviously did the sums and decided it was cheaper than paying for ground equipment. Do all Ryanair a/c have them or just a subfleet for specifc routes?

I don't work for Ryanair, so take this with a grain of salt, but Ryanair is the antithesis of "subfleet". I very much expect that the airstairs are fleet-wide. At least, every single FR flight I've flown on had them, and used them.


User currently offlineFlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7379 posts, RR: 57
Reply 28, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 14280 times:

The Dassault MERCURE also had built in air stairs


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User currently offlineStrathpeffer From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 14155 times:

I think some of BA's early A320s (G-BUS*) had integral airstairs at L1.


Another Technical Problem?
User currently offlinecaptainstefan From United States of America, joined May 2007, 416 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 14047 times:

The continuations of the DC-9 (MD-8x, MD-90, 717) all have retractable stairs in the rear. All of DL's DC-9s/-88s-90s have airstairs at door 1L but all of thos ehave been deactivated.


Long Live the Tulip!
User currently offlineSpaceshipDC10 From Australia, joined Jan 2013, 1402 posts, RR: 3
Reply 31, posted (11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 14018 times:

I'm not sure whether it was indeed installed on production aircraft, but Lockheed also proposed this kind of self-contained air-stairs.

http://crimso.msk.ru/Images6/AE/AE73-6/24-1.jpg



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User currently offlinereifel From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 1310 posts, RR: 1
Reply 32, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13847 times:

It was mentioned earlier, but IL86 do, and interestingly they do on a lower deck (on a level where you would load cargo). Aparently this is due to remote airports in Russia which had no stairs high enough to board a IL86

User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5554 posts, RR: 6
Reply 33, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13728 times:

Quoting loranfair (Reply 19):
I believe the airstairs were only on the Fairchild F-27s and FH-227s, not the Fokker F.27s.

Learning ever more!

Gemuser



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User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2315 posts, RR: 21
Reply 34, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13620 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 21):

They are an option on all 737-NG aircraft...
They were standard up through the -500, but were made optional with the NG to save the outrageous weight and maintenance costs. Hated those things!!!

The price must still be lower compared to what the airports charge. Otherwise FR wouldn't use them I assume.


User currently offlinejolau1701 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 221 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13608 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 2):
And they probably charge the passengers for their use, either boarding or deplaning

SSSSSSHHHHHHH!!!!!! You're going to give them bad ideas!


User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3140 posts, RR: 8
Reply 36, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13482 times:

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 23):
But the ones in the 727 uniquely, had a dual function.

A third function was a convenient way to parachute from the plane.



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineokAY From Finland, joined Dec 2006, 648 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13410 times:

ATR 72/42, F50 and SAAB 340/2000 have self contained stairs IIRC.

User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 2930 posts, RR: 1
Reply 38, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13356 times:

F100 also had the option.

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2818 posts, RR: 7
Reply 39, posted (11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 13498 times:
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Lufthansa's original short fuselage 737-130 models had a unique rear integral air-stair then required the door to hinge downwards rather like a number of Biz-jets at the time.


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User currently offlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4845 posts, RR: 19
Reply 40, posted (11 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13180 times:

The DC-9 & BAC 111 had integral air stairs because a lot of the airports that they flew into didn't have ground facilities. The air stairs made the aircraft self sufficient. Remember these jets were responsible for bringing jet service to cities that previously had none.

Sometimes I'd see the cabin door open first and then the airstairs extend and sometimes you'd see the airstairs extend first then the cabin door would open. To me it looked weird how those stairs would just extend out of the fuselage of the plane at L1. When you walked up those stairs they were not as steady as a jetway would be.

I know that at ORD BN never had a BAC 111 use a jetway. They would always part parallel to the terminal an you would go down stairs to the ramp level and board via the airstairs. Was the BAC too low for their jetways? I seems the BAC 111 was much lower to the ground than the DC-9 was.



Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2818 posts, RR: 7
Reply 41, posted (11 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13191 times:
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Quoting LHRBFSTrident (Reply 20):
British Airways had L1 airstairs on their BAC1-11s - except the LHR-based -510s - apparently they were removed to save weight and maintenance costs - except they found they needed to add ballast to counteract the weight difference. There was a rumour in BA that there were 20-odd shipsets of 1-11 airstairs lying around somewhere at Heathrow [ TB(A,B,C, etc)].

The BHX-based -400s and -539s retained the L1 air-stairs as delivered - not sure about the MAN-based a/c...

Manchester, Heathrow and Berlin shared the use of the BAC1-11-510ED - The front stairs were not used as far as I remember through on many occasions I have boarded them through the tail stairs on the odd number stands on pier B and gate 44 at Manchester.

Integral air-stairs were popular with many European Charter airlines in the seventies because many of the summer sun fields were poorly equipped at the time.

Thus most B732s had them upfront and all (Western) Tee tails of the time had them. Caravelles had both front and tail stairs as did some Dc-9s and the majority of BAC1-11s


User currently offlinethrufru From Marshall Islands, joined Feb 2009, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (11 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13106 times:

To answer the initial poster's question, yes there are new aircraft around with self-contained airstairs. Miami Air has them and we frequently use them on our 737-800's. However... They are not the preferred method of boarding/deplaning. The stairs, while self-lit and extremely sturdy, can be kind of scary for a lot of people. Stepping directly out of the aircraft onto a very, very steep staircase with what appears to be Popsicle sticks for handrails isn't easy for a lot of people, and you can pretty much forget the typical passenger trying to climb it with a standard sized carry-on. Conversely, though, they can also result in a stop by stop cost savings. By using our own stairs in OMA this week, we saved nearly $800 in associated fees.

User currently offlineedina From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 736 posts, RR: 9
Reply 43, posted (11 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 12996 times:

Quoting Strathpeffer (Reply 29):

They did, but were deactivated by the mid 90s, and were rarely used in any case. The control panels were just adjacent to the door hinge at 1L, and were simply placarded "INOP" after deactivation.



Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
User currently offlineTristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 3930 posts, RR: 34
Reply 44, posted (11 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 12821 times:

Quoting Strathpeffer (Reply 29):
I think some of BA's early A320s (G-BUS*) had integral airstairs at L1.

Yes they were fitted on delivery.
I saw them demonstrated at the factory at Toulouse.
But on delivery they were made inoperative because of a safety interlock problem, and they were never used. Later on they were removed. The control box was still fitted at the nose leg however.
I believe that the 10 A320 as ordered by BCAL were the only A320 with airstairs?
I also believe that A320 airstair were never used by passengers?
Anyone seen a photograph?


User currently offlineSpaceshipDC10 From Australia, joined Jan 2013, 1402 posts, RR: 3
Reply 45, posted (11 months 2 weeks ago) and read 12795 times:

Quoting beau222 (Reply 18):
I have seen a private B757 with a self contained set of stairs

Indeed


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User currently offlinevirginblue4 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 889 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (11 months 2 weeks ago) and read 12656 times:

Flybe 195's have self-contained air stairs at the front and obviously so do the Q400's as they are part of the door.


The amazing tale of flight.
User currently offlineedina From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 736 posts, RR: 9
Reply 47, posted (11 months 2 weeks ago) and read 12604 times:

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 44):

Thanks for that! I knew they hadn't been touched since I started working on the A320 in '95....didn't realise they had never been used. My initial cabin crew manual for the Airbus contained operating instructions for the air stairs though for my first couple of years on the type, which made me think they had been used at some stage.



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User currently offlineDitzyboy From Australia, joined Feb 2008, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 48, posted (11 months 2 weeks ago) and read 12412 times:

Quoting captainstefan (Reply 30):
The continuations of the DC-9 (MD-8x, MD-90, 717) all have retractable stairs in the rear.

The 717 does not feature aft airstairs. I believe it was removed as an option during the design phase to increase fuel efficiency.


User currently offlineStrathpeffer From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 11136 times:

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 44):

I have/had a poster of all the types regularly visiting DUS many years ago - no idea where it is now - but the A320 photo is a BA one with the airstairs deployed and a crew member sitting on the bottom step doing paperwork on a clipboard. That is how I knew they had them!



Another Technical Problem?
User currently offlineYAK42 From Ireland, joined Oct 2000, 800 posts, RR: 6
Reply 50, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 11035 times:

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 44):
Yes they were fitted on delivery.
I saw them demonstrated at the factory at Toulouse.
But on delivery they were made inoperative because of a safety interlock problem, and they were never used. Later on they were removed.

I wonder if these are still a possible option that could be fitted, for example if Ryanair expressed interest in the type and insisted on integral airstairs.

Yak42s also have tail airstairs but not @ L1.

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[Edited 2013-05-12 07:43:55]

User currently offlineStrathpeffer From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 10965 times:

Quoting YAK42 (Reply 50):

They're often specified on corporate ones. See here: http://dave--kelly.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/australian-a319.html?m=1



Another Technical Problem?
User currently offlineAsteriskceo From United States of America, joined May 2004, 453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 10879 times:

I saw a WN 737 with the air stairs compartment located below the boarding door. I believe it was an airTran converted ship, and they most likely stripped out the stairs.

User currently offlinecschleic From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1228 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 10500 times:

John Travolta's 707 has them in the front. I wonder if it is/was the only 707 with them?

User currently offlineYAK42 From Ireland, joined Oct 2000, 800 posts, RR: 6
Reply 54, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 10428 times:

Quoting Strathpeffer (Reply 51):
They're often specified on corporate ones. See here: http://dave--kelly.blogspot.co.uk/20...l?m=1

Thanx!


User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4762 posts, RR: 43
Reply 55, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 10324 times:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 39):
Lufthansa's original short fuselage 737-130 models had a unique rear integral air-stair then required the door to hinge downwards rather like a number of Biz-jets at the time.

It is very rare to have that rear door air-stair installation on an all passenger B737. All combi versions of the B737-200 had that rear air-stair.

At CP, our all passenger B737-200/300s had the forward air-stair, and all of our Combi B737-200s had the rear air-stair.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2368 posts, RR: 3
Reply 56, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 10197 times:

Quoting cschleic (Reply 53):
John Travolta's 707 has them in the front. I wonder if it is/was the only 707 with them?

Really? If so, I never knew that. I am not sure where they would be located and stored. I don't see a small door below the passenger door:

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According to the Boeing website, the 727 was the "First large commercial airplane to carry its own built-in airstairs and auxiliary power unit and to feature single-point refueling for total independence of ground support equipment at through stops."
http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/727family/breakthrough.page

[Edited 2013-05-12 08:37:19]


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User currently offlinewoodsboy From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 57, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9354 times:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 39):
Lufthansa's original short fuselage 737-130 models had a unique rear integral air-stair then required the door to hinge downwards rather like a number of Biz-jets at the time.

Just like the pictured LH 731, All of Alaska Airlines 737-200QCs had the same kind of L2 airstairs where the door folded down and the stairs folded out from the door. Of course this was very handy for all the remote airports they served with the freighters and since the front of the plane had cargo the front door was not able to be used for passengers..usually, unless it was configured in the full pax config. Incidently, the L1 door also had integral airstairs!


User currently offlinedoulasc From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 487 posts, RR: 0
Reply 58, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9228 times:

On Boeing 727s-Eastern was the only one I noticed that had self contained stairs at the front passenger loading door.Other airlines Boeing 727s i have seen did not have them because I saw no door underneath the front loading door. ALL had rear self contained stairs under the engines. I remember as kid in the 1960s I boarded a TWA 727 going up the rear stairs.

User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3140 posts, RR: 8
Reply 59, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9196 times:

Delta's MD-88s have the L1 airstair door sealed shut. I don't know if they were ever used.


Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineTomassjc From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 796 posts, RR: 2
Reply 60, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9170 times:
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Quoting longhauler (Reply 55):
It is very rare to have that rear door air-stair installation on an all passenger B737.

Air California had them on their original 6 all passenger aircraft, that were originally destined for Pacific before the Air West merger.

AS's oldest 737-400, N786AS, has forward air stairs. They have been deactivated, and I believe, removed for weight purposes, but you can still see the hatch under the L1 door where they used to extend.

I recall that Eastern had forward air stairs on several of their 727s, both -100 and -200 models. I remember using them in St Thomas and a few times in the old ATL terminal.

Tomas SJC



When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
User currently offlineFlyMKG From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 182 posts, RR: 1
Reply 61, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8893 times:

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 23):
But the ones in the 727 uniquely, had a dual function. They could support the airplane's weight and prevent the aircraft's nose from going up, if something went wrong during loading/unloading on ground.

While true on a 727-100, many airlines prohibit having the stairs down during loading on the -200. The increase in arm between the main wheels and the stairs on a -200 can be detrimental to the fuselage according to many. Most -200s have a tail stand which either hangs forward of the tailskid or one that is actually kept under pressure between the airplane and the ground (FedEx).

The -100 stairs also require an extra action to hydraulically over-center them compared to the -200. On a -100 once the stair lever is moved the stairs free fall down unless a button on top of the lever is pressed to provide hydraulic pressure to over-center them. The -200 has hydraulic pressure as soon as the stair lever is moved. Both of these of course assume a hydraulic pump is on.

FlyMKG



Essential Power, Operating Generator.
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4762 posts, RR: 43
Reply 62, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8471 times:

Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 60):
Air California had them on their original 6 all passenger aircraft, that were originally destined for Pacific before the Air West merger.

That's really interesting, and I start to wonder if maybe the rear air-stair was "invented" before the forward air-stair. At the time, all of the air-stair equipped aircraft of the day, like the B727-100, Caravelle, etc, would have had rear air-stairs. Maybe Boeing thought that was what sold, and so offered on the initial B737s.

Only later to offer the forward air-stair. I don't know, just trying to wonder why a rear air-stair would be offered on an all passenger aircraft.

Looking through the Air California pictures on here, I see one you mention. All passenger with a rear air-stair:


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It also answered another question ... were any equipped with both the rear and forward air-stair, and this one was!



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinefanofjets From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1943 posts, RR: 3
Reply 63, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8239 times:

Quoting bohica (Reply 12):
There were a couple L-1011's with them also.
Quoting antonovman (Reply 13):
Many years ago a british holiday airline called Courtline had them on their L1011 s and i think they came out of the lower galley.
I saw a picture once

Indeed - Lockheed used the prototype to build a set of stairs that were stowed in one of the rear cargo holds. I think Court Line ordered the option, but I doubt if anyone else did - they were very cumbersome and took up a lot of room in the cargo hold. The AirlinerTech book has a photo of this strange installation. The air stairs on the PSA bird are unique, as those were the only TriStars with the lower-deck lounge. Some of the PSA birds went to LTU, but I am not aware whether the German carrier used these.



The aeroplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
User currently offlineby738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2176 posts, RR: 1
Reply 64, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8190 times:

There was a fancy lift mechanism offered conversion for the 748 which came down to the tarmac !

User currently offlineTristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 3930 posts, RR: 34
Reply 65, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7984 times:

Quoting by738 (Reply 64):
There was a fancy lift mechanism offered conversion for the 748 which came down to the tarmac !

Can you say that again.
Are you on a real HS 748, or a new fangled B747-800?


User currently offlineTomassjc From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 796 posts, RR: 2
Reply 66, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7931 times:
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Quoting longhauler (Reply 62):
Looking through the Air California pictures on here, I see one you mention. All passenger with a rear air-stair:



I believe Aloha had a few early all passenger 737s with dual integral air stairs as well. Actually, the Air Cal jet pictured was on lease from Aloha!

I'm sure it was an option for these carriers from Boeing, as most of the cities they served at the time were without jet ways. I know both Air Cal and Aloha had quick 15 minute ground times back in the day, and dual boarding/deplaning helped make that happen.

Nice to see the pic of the Air California bird at my home airport as well!

Tomas SJC.

[Edited 2013-05-12 11:27:17]


When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
User currently offlineSpaceshipDC10 From Australia, joined Jan 2013, 1402 posts, RR: 3
Reply 67, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7813 times:

Quoting fanofjets (Reply 63):
Indeed - Lockheed used the prototype to build a set of stairs that were stowed in one of the rear cargo holds. I think Court Line ordered the option, but I doubt if anyone else did - they were very cumbersome and took up a lot of room in the cargo hold. The AirlinerTech book has a photo of this strange installation.

Probably these, from the link I posted earlier

http://crimso.msk.ru/Images6/AE/AE73-6/24-1.jpg



KEEP LOOKING UP as in Space Fan News
User currently offlineokAY From Finland, joined Dec 2006, 648 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7515 times:

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 67):

That must be the coolest, but also the most quirky air stairs I have seen ! Thanks for the photo.


User currently offlineEIDL From Ireland, joined Apr 2012, 367 posts, RR: 0
Reply 69, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7003 times:

Quoting Bthebest (Reply 26):
That's why its surprising to find Ryanair with them, but they obviously did the sums and decided it was cheaper than paying for ground equipment. Do all Ryanair a/c have them or just a subfleet for specifc routes?

They often use ground equipment to L2 to speed boarding/unloading so its not an outright aversion to paying for it; its something that allows them to operate to airports with basically no facilities if required.


User currently offlineyeelep From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 632 posts, RR: 0
Reply 70, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6899 times:

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 57):
All of Alaska Airlines 737-200QCs had the same kind of L2 airstairs where the door folded down and the stairs folded out from the door. Of course this was very handy for all the remote airports they served with the freighters and since the front of the plane had cargo the front door was not able to be used for passengers..usually, unless it was configured in the full pax config. Incidently, the L1 door also had integral airstairs!

I'm pretty sure none of the AS -200's had L1 airstairs.

Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 60):
AS's oldest 737-400, N786AS, has forward air stairs. They have been deactivated, and I believe, removed for weight purposes, but you can still see the hatch under the L1 door where they used to extend.

Your'e correct, the stairs have been removed. I think N786AS is also the only plane in the current fleet that was not delivered new to AS.


User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 71, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6822 times:
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Quoting cschleic (Reply 53):
John Travolta's 707 has them in the front. I wonder if it is/was the only 707 with them?

It sure does. Airstairs were popular aftermarket additions to private 707s.


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Quoting CitationJet (Reply 56):
Really? If so, I never knew that. I am not sure where they would be located and stored. I don't see a small door below the passenger door:

Usually stowed in the cabin just inside and to the right of the L1 door.



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User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24084 posts, RR: 22
Reply 72, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6818 times:

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 38):
F100 also had the option.

KLM's recently-retired Fokker 100st had a mix of the downward-opening airstair door and the regular sideways-opening door with no airstairs. Depended on the aircraft's original operator. Those delivered to North American carriers usually had the regular door without airstairs. If not mistaken all KLM Fokker 70s have the downward-opening airstair door.


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Photo © Andreas Fietz
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Photo © Robert Burke



Fokker 100s with the 2 types of doors, airstair (left) and no airstairs (right). The lower edge of the standard door is much higher on the fuselage (at floor level) and there's a bare metal area on the fuselage around the door sill. There's also a small window in that type of door.


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Photo © Ruud Brinks - Aerospray



F100 with the non-airstairs door open. It slides sideways against the fuselage like Airbus doors.


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Photo © Dirk-Jan Kraan

Quoting longhauler (Reply 55):
At CP, our all passenger B737-200/300s had the forward air-stair, and all of our Combi B737-200s had the rear air-stair.

CP's 4 727-100s operated for a few years in the 1970s also had the forward airstair identical to the 732. I think that option was fairly rare on 727s. I don't think the 2 later CP 727-200s had the forward airstairs.


User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 73, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6813 times:
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N88ZL had airstairs at the back door as well. I'm not familiar with that installation, not sure where it stows but I presume it goes in the cabin as well.


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User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24084 posts, RR: 22
Reply 74, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6793 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 62):
Looking through the Air California pictures on here, I see one you mention. All passenger with a rear air-stair:
LH 737-100s also had airstairs at both front and rear. The rear airstairs were the same as those on 737-200 combis. The rear airstairs door is wider than the standard door.


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Photo © Baldur Sveinsson



As a sidenote, the aircraft in the photo on the left has the original ineffective 737 thrust reverser design. Early 737-100s/-200s with those reversers were all modified with the much longer nacelle as in the 2nd photo.

[Edited 2013-05-12 17:32:59]

[Edited 2013-05-12 17:33:55]

[Edited 2013-05-12 18:17:04]

User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6784 times:
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Not technically an airstair, but unusual enough that it should be included. USAF C-9As had a self contained ramp in the cargo door. Used for embarking litter patients.


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User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31573 posts, RR: 57
Reply 76, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6344 times:

Is the Airstair an option on the -NG and if so is the mechanism similiar to that of the -200.


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24084 posts, RR: 22
Reply 77, posted (11 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6216 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 76):
Is the Airstair an option on the -NG and if so is the mechanism similiar to that of the -200.

As already mentioned, Ryanair have the airstairs on their 737-800s. I doubt they've changed since the first 737-100 in 1967. They look virtually identical in photos.


User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 913 posts, RR: 1
Reply 78, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6022 times:

Alot of G4 airplanes have the slot and the handle for the air stairs but those are taken out now. Also SY has stairs at the front of the aircraft I believe.


PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29705 posts, RR: 59
Reply 79, posted (11 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5934 times:

Quoting yeelep (Reply 70):
I'm pretty sure none of the AS -200's had L1 airstairs.

It's been nearly twenty years since I worked there but I do not recall any of the -200's having a forward airstair either.

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 57):
Just like the pictured LH 731, All of Alaska Airlines 737-200QCs had the same kind of L2 airstairs where the door folded down and the stairs folded out from the door. Of course this was very handy for all the remote airports they served with the freighters and since the front of the plane had cargo the front door was not able to be used for passengers..usually, unless it was configured in the full pax config. Incidently, the L1 door also had integral airstairs!

Almost correct on the L2 door.

N741AS (or was it N740AS?) lacked airstairs so stair trucks had to be used and the aircraft only sent to stations that had a stair truck. So it ended up on the Dutch Harbor run a lot if I remember correctly.

All the other -200QC's had airstairs aft.

Incendently the ANC station stairtruck was donated to the Alaska Aviation History Museum at Lake Hood and is used to access the cabin of the 737 that AS donated to them a few years ago.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineyeelep From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 632 posts, RR: 0
Reply 80, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5855 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 79):
N741AS (or was it N740AS?) lacked airstairs so stair trucks had to be used and the aircraft only sent to stations that had a stair truck. So it ended up on the Dutch Harbor run a lot if I remember correctly.

Yep, N741AS.


User currently offline7BOEING7 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1318 posts, RR: 8
Reply 81, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5842 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 79):
Quoting yeelep (Reply 70):I'm pretty sure none of the AS -200's had L1 airstairs.

It's been nearly twenty years since I worked there but I do not recall any of the -200's having a forward airstair either

All -200's had airstairs on delivery, it wasn't until somewhere in the New Gen (-300/400/500) run that they started disappearing. When I was flying with Mark Air in Alaska in mid '84 everybody (Wein/Mark AIr/Alaska) still had/needed them front, back, or both -- but that was...wow!..almost 30 years ago.


User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2227 posts, RR: 19
Reply 82, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5819 times:

Quoting Asteriskceo (Reply 52):
I saw a WN 737 with the air stairs compartment located below the boarding door. I believe it was an airTran converted ship, and they most likely stripped out the stairs.

A hand full of -300s have the door sealed shut, as well as some of the 2nd hand -700s and some of the ex FL frames. Off the top of my head here are the planes that I am 85% sure have the sealed in air-stairs.

-300s

N308SA
N317WN
N657SW
N665WN

-700s

N550WN
N551WN
N270WN
N7714B ( ex airTran N126AT )

There might possibly be some more frames with the sealed in door in their fleet.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31573 posts, RR: 57
Reply 83, posted (10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5145 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 77):
I doubt they've changed since the first 737-100 in 1967. They look virtually identical in photos.

Air stair on the B732s were loaded with sequencing switches & sometimes snag prone.Wonder if Improvements were made on the later versions.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineJetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 24
Reply 84, posted (10 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4949 times:

One type not mentioned so far that had front and rear airstairs were Vickers Vanguards.


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The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 85, posted (10 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3971 times:

In the late 1950's or early 1960, and a year or so before the B 707 became the first commercial jet airliner in the U.S., old Piedmont Airlines operated twin engined Martin 404's ; the 404's has a self contained airstair which extended out of the underneath of the tail towards the rear, much like the rear facing airstair on the much later B 727.

I used to be at CVG almost every evening delivering 100/130 oct av gas to Piedmont, and after delivering my last load, I frequently rode out to the far end of the airport with the Piedmont mechanics who had to perform engine run-ups on the last plane of the day which terminated at CVG. If my memory serves me correctly, I'm pretty sure this was before they had any "jet-ways" at CVG. In those days, the planes parked quite a distance from the terminal, and all the airlines used either an old fashioned stair-truck, or else a self-propelled boarding-stairs. Come to think of it, everything was quite different back then; no TSA, no "security" of any kind, people regularly helped their friends onto planes and sometimes "hung out" with them in the cabin before the "stewardesses" made all of the "non-passengers" deplane; as a further example of how loose things were at airports back then..........in addition to hauling av-gas to Piedmot, AA, TWA, and Delta, I would occasionally take a truck load of regular gas to Hertz or Avis. Every time I unloaded at Avis, they had an old three-wheeled Harley that their guys used for shuttling cars to their downtown Cincinnati location. As no one ever used the old three wheeler on the evening shift, I always hopped on it and drove all over the airport, including out on the tarmac where all the ground service guys I knew were fueling planes up. ( I can't even imagine what they would do to you if you tried that today ! )



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
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