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Take Off To 30,000 Ft In 45 Seconds On A 747.  
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3335 posts, RR: 9
Posted (9 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Hey everyone,

I saw White House Down this weekend and there is a scene where they take off a VC-25 (Air Force one) from Andrews AFB and say that they will be at 30,000 feet in 45 seconds. The scene in the is clearly CGI and its a movie, but is that actually a possibility for this aircraft considering it is a USAF modified 747 and a presume rarely at MTOW ??

Would this also be something that Boeing and other manufacturers would have had to do with their planes when testing it before certification??


Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCplKlinger From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

No, not a possibility with any 747. That works out to a 40,000 ft/min climb rate. The only aircraft in that arena are fighters.

User currently offlineSAAFNAV From South Africa, joined Mar 2010, 254 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Well, since a F-15 can do it in 30 seconds, and the F.6 Lightning climbed to 36 000' in 3min, a B747 really needs to haul @ss to do it.

But, if you can have an escape pod from it and air-to-air rescues like the movie Air Force One, I guess you can climb that fast as well.



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User currently offlinetb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1550 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (9 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting StarAC17 (Thread starter):
Would this also be something that Boeing and other manufacturers would have had to do with their planes when testing it before certification??

No. That's about 40,000' per minute rate of climb. An F-15 could do it but not the 747, even modified(reasonable modification)in any way at a minimum weight.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineRussianJet From Kyrgyzstan, joined Jul 2007, 7637 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (9 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
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That would be a particularly cool 747. Presumably it could go near-vertical.   

On a particularly silly note, would it be possible to put some humungous, giant, fighter-style rockets with afterburner onto something like a 747, in order to achieve such ludicrous performance? Would the force just rip the pylons off the wing? Has anything even vaguely similar been tried?



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4089 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (9 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Thats about as likely as reaching 10,000 feet by the shoreline departing LAX..


The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlinenjxc500 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

According to another thread here on A.net, the Saturn V rocket took 72 seconds to get to 30,000 FT, so.......yeah.

User currently offlinePITingres From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1089 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (9 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting njxc500 (Reply 6):
According to another thread here on A.net, the Saturn V rocket took 72 seconds to get to 30,000 FT, so.......yeah.

That's because the S-1C was underpowered. Had the Saturn program continued, the F-1's would presumably have been replaced by uprated F-1A's. Real rockets   get to 30K a lot faster.

But OK, I get your point. You'd have to pretty much stand a 747 on end to achieve that sort of climb rate, and the only thing that's going to happen if you stand a 747 on end is a crushed tail.



Fly, you fools! Fly!
User currently offlineCplKlinger From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

The only way the 747 is reaching 40,000 ft/min of anything is in a steep dive. A dive all the way to the crash site.

User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7006 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (9 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Maybe if it takes off using a treadmill?


"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8646 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (9 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

If they took off, held it at 500 ft, cleaned up while accelerating to 300 kts, pitched up 20 degrees, it will still take around 4-5 minutes with a vertice speed of around 10000 fpm.


We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1213 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (9 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Conveyor belt, anyone? Perhaps a phalanx of JATO bottles? But, perhaps, most importantly: A complete disregard for aerodynamics and physics. Which is just Hollywood staying true to form, as in being purveyors of entertainment and not facts.


From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 12, posted (9 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 11):
A complete disregard for aerodynamics and physics. Which is just Hollywood staying true to form, as in being purveyors of entertainment and not facts.

Indeed, but so much mindless fun.

http://www.nextmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/fast-furious-runway.jpg



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlinebristolflyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 2273 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 4):
On a particularly silly note, would it be possible to put some humungous, giant, fighter-style rockets with afterburner onto something like a 747, in order to achieve such ludicrous performance? Would the force just rip the pylons off the wing? Has anything even vaguely similar been tried?

Oh yes it has...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKCl3lfAx1Q



Fortune favours the brave
User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1336 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Looks 8,000 to maybe 10,000 fpm is possible on an empty airliner at takeoff.

I bet an empty VC-25 is not a light plane with all its extra fittings.

So a VC-25 with almost no fuel (refuel once at cruising altitude?) could do it in 5 min+?


User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3335 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting tb727 (Reply 3):
No. That's about 40,000' per minute rate of climb. An F-15 could do it but not the 747, even modified(reasonable modification)in any way at a minimum weight.

When you look at the rate then yes this is clearly movie physics.

On another note if a 747 was climbing at 10000ft/min, what would be the G force felt by a passenger?



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21126 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 32767 times:

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 15):
On another note if a 747 was climbing at 10000ft/min, what would be the G force felt by a passenger?

A steady-state climb is a 1G maneuver - it's the getting into that climb (upward acceleration) that'll cause the G-forces. If the transition from level flight to the climb were done gradually (which would admittedly cost time), then the passengers shouldn't feel much of anything.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineRussianJet From Kyrgyzstan, joined Jul 2007, 7637 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 32767 times:
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Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 13):
Oh yes it has...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKCl3lfAx1Q

That's pretty bonkers.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
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