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Biggest Wing?  
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7694 posts, RR: 21
Posted (11 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5931 times:
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Seems like an obvious question, but I couldn't find any threads in searches.

Which aircraft has (or had) the biggest wing? Let me break it down further: Which is the biggest by area, and which by span? Also, are there any aircraft that have a particularly large wing relative to their overall size? What are the advantages and disadvantages there?


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34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17002 posts, RR: 67
Reply 1, posted (11 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5917 times:

Widest span ever was the H-4 Hercules AKA Spruce Goose. Currently in service is the An-225 Mriya, which I'm pretty sure also has the largest wing area ever.

Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):
Also, are there any aircraft that have a particularly large wing relative to their overall size?

A380-800

Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):
What are the advantages and disadvantages there?

Room for growth into the A380-900. Big wings give more lift but also more drag. They are also heavier.

If it hadn't been for the 80x80m ICAO "box", the A380 would have had a wider span. As it is now, it has more chord than optimal, giving both more parasite drag and more induced drag that could have been achieved.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1832 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (11 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5840 times:

The AN-225 at 84m outspans the A380.


[Edited 2013-08-20 11:01:52]


Andy Goetsch
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7694 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (11 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5815 times:
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Shorter aircraft seem to need proportionally wider wings - the Lockheed Viking springs to mind. Why is this?


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17002 posts, RR: 67
Reply 4, posted (11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5772 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 3):
Shorter aircraft seem to need proportionally wider wings - the Lockheed Viking springs to mind. Why is this?

There's nothing aerodynamically that requires more relative span with a shorter fuselage. I think the Viking needs wide wingspan because of required carrier performance. Also they give long loiter time with high lift plus have lots of space for fuel.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7694 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5454 times:
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Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 4):
There's nothing aerodynamically that requires more relative span with a shorter fuselage. I think the Viking needs wide wingspan because of required carrier performance. Also they give long loiter time with high lift plus have lots of space for fuel.

Fair enough, obviously just an incorrect perception on my part. Probably also aided by cases like the A380, where a series is given room to 'grow into' the wing.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5401 times:

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 2):

I just knew that a post would have this comparative pic  
On the topic....Spruce Goose is the winner till date.



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User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7694 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5399 times:
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Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6):
I just knew that a post would have this comparative pic

I was hoping it would! It does the job quite nicely. Still quite interested in any examples of apparent disproportion though.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17002 posts, RR: 67
Reply 8, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5325 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 7):
I was hoping it would! It does the job quite nicely. Still quite interested in any examples of apparent disproportion though.

Aircraft have the wings they need I suppose. For low to medium subsonic flight you want a high aspect ratio (long and thin) to decrease induced drag. However this creates structural issues. For transonic flight you want swept wings to delay shockwave formation. To hold a lot of fuel you need a thick wing but this creates more parasite drag. Lots and lots of compromises, with many factors not being aerodynamic.

Here are some fun ones:

F-104

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Photo © Jannik Femerling



Proteus

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Photo © Gerhard Plomitzer

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/XF91-21republic.jpg



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24903 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5237 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 5):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 4):
There's nothing aerodynamically that requires more relative span with a shorter fuselage. I think the Viking needs wide wingspan because of required carrier performance. Also they give long loiter time with high lift plus have lots of space for fuel.

Fair enough, obviously just an incorrect perception on my part. Probably also aided by cases like the A380, where a series is given room to 'grow into' the wing.

747SP has the same wingspan and wing area as the 747-100/200/300 (but much simpler flaps) although the SP is almost 50 feet shorter. Until the 777-200LR (and freighter) and 787-8, the 747SP was the only Boeing widebody with wingspan greater than fuselage length.


User currently offlinerwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2313 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5223 times:
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Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):
Until the 777-200LR (and freighter) and 787-8, the 747SP was the only Boeing widebody with wingspan greater than fuselage length.

Pikers.


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User currently onlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9796 posts, RR: 26
Reply 11, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5137 times:
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Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):
Until the 777-200LR (and freighter) and 787-8, the 747SP was the only Boeing widebody with wingspan greater than fuselage length.

That's an interesting observation that I never picked up on, though the 762 was darn close.

The SP also has a ridiculously large v-stab compared to its fuse. Of course, necessary for the reduced moment arm the shorter fuse provides.

U-2 has a quite high aspect ratio wing:


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Photo © Esa Kaihlanen



...as does the Dash 8 (I always find the wings a bit comical):


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I always thought that Gulfstreams have quite large wings (and flaps) for their size:


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Also always thought IL-96-300's proportions look designed in a way that more-or-less exactly fails to please the eye:


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User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21415 posts, RR: 54
Reply 12, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5014 times:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 11):
Also always thought IL-96-300's proportions look designed in a way that more-or-less exactly fails to please the eye:

Purely visually, it would need a stretch to look a lot nicer (and likely better engines to make that feasible) – pretty much as the A380-800, only that an A380-900 is a lot more likely to actually happen.

Apart from that the IL-96 looks very nice to me.


User currently offlineKuja From Bermuda, joined Aug 2013, 80 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4957 times:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 11):
Also always thought IL-96-300's proportions look designed in a way that more-or-less exactly fails to please the eye

  

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
Purely visually, it would need a stretch to look a lot nicer

There is of course the stretched Il-96-400 (currently only in freighter -400T form but apparently some of those will be converted to passenger duty for Cubana). It does indeed look a lot nicer, but it still lacks the elegance of the A340-500 IMO.

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User currently offlineBuyantukhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2872 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4947 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):
Also, are there any aircraft that have a particularly large wing relative to their overall size?

The Vulcan comes to mind.



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User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7694 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4939 times:
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Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 11):
Also always thought IL-96-300's proportions look designed in a way that more-or-less exactly fails to please the eye:

Sacrilege!



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently onlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9796 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4933 times:
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Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
Apart from that the IL-96 looks very nice to me.

It's a strange thing - it actually looks great in the Aeroflot livery, at first glance. Then I look again, and I start to notice all the weird proportions - fat fuse, tall tail, large wingspan, huge winglets....

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 15):
Sacrilege!

  



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineLH707330 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 732 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4924 times:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 11):
Also always thought IL-96-300's proportions look designed in a way that more-or-less exactly fails to please the eye:

The engine placement along the wing also looks off IMHO...


User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2425 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4858 times:

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 17):
The engine placement along the wing also looks off IMHO...

Now that you say that, I somewhat agree. The inboard engines are a ways outboard compared to other 4 holers.

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User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21415 posts, RR: 54
Reply 19, posted (11 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4770 times:

Quoting Kuja (Reply 13):
There is of course the stretched Il-96-400 (currently only in freighter -400T form but apparently some of those will be converted to passenger duty for Cubana). It does indeed look a lot nicer, but it still lacks the elegance of the A340-500 IMO.

Nothing beats the A340-600 anyway...!   

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 16):
It's a strange thing - it actually looks great in the Aeroflot livery, at first glance. Then I look again, and I start to notice all the weird proportions - fat fuse, tall tail, large wingspan, huge winglets....

Its proportions are effectively similar to a shorter-legged 777-200 due to the smaller engines.

But preferences are often formed by what we're used to - I think it is primarily different and unusual.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7694 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (11 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4621 times:
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Quoting Klaus (Reply 19):
Nothing beats the A340-600 anyway...!

That's certainly true. Best large jet ever!

Quoting Klaus (Reply 19):
But preferences are often formed by what we're used to - I think it is primarily different and unusual.

Once again you hit the nail squarely on the head, Klauschen. It just looks a bit odd because we're so used to seeing A and B all the time.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineWestern727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 743 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (11 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4588 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 8):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/XF91-21republic.jpg

I was intrigued by Starlionblue's post showing the XF-91 Thunderceptor with its unique wing chord design (to address wingtip stall issues at low speeds and high AOA), further explained here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republi...nderceptor#Design_and_development.

Forgive me for going OT but I've gotta ask this: how were engineers able to overcome the wingtip stall issue at low speeds/high AOA in subsequent designs?



Jack @ AUS
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17002 posts, RR: 67
Reply 22, posted (11 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4525 times:

Quoting Western727 (Reply 21):
Forgive me for going OT but I've gotta ask this: how were engineers able to overcome the wingtip stall issue at low speeds/high AOA in subsequent designs?

They solved tip stalls by giving the wing variable incidence, or "washout". All modern airliners have this. The wing is slightly twisted to give a higher angle of incidence near the root, so at any given angle of attack for the entire wing, the root will have a higher angle of attack than the tip. The root will thus stall before the tip.

This has two advantages.
- You retain aileron authority since the tip is the last section to stall.
- On a swept wing the root is further forward. If it stalls the center of pressure moves aft and the plane pitches down, automagically resolving the stall. If the tip stalls first, there is a pitch up moment, which is bad Feng Shui.

[Edited 2013-08-23 12:27:26]

Note that washout wasn't the only thing. There are fences, vortex generators and other aerodynamical magic in this game.


[Edited 2013-08-23 12:36:14]


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently onlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9796 posts, RR: 26
Reply 23, posted (11 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4497 times:
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Quoting Klaus (Reply 19):
Nothing beats the A340-600 anyway...!

Except the A340-500.   Better proportioned, in my opinion.

I also like the 773, but that's just due to how huge it looks.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 19):
But preferences are often formed by what we're used to - I think it is primarily different and unusual.

   Absolutely.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineneutrino From Singapore, joined May 2012, 605 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (11 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4192 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):
are there any aircraft that have a particularly large wing relative to their overall size?

A tad off topic, but is there any aircraft with a larger tail-plane - relatively speaking - than the Gloster Javelin's?



Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
25 Post contains links and images Starlionblue : Myasishchev VM-T Atlant. View Large View MediumPhoto © Andrei Pechenkin
26 Post contains links and images Starlionblue : The Soviet Union also gave us the bonkers Kalinin K-7.
27 RussianJet : I have never seen that one before - thanks for posting. I can only describe designing a plane like that as truly ridiculous behaviour.
28 Viscount724 : I'm sure the 2nd photo is computer-generated (from a movie or similar) and makes the aircraft appear much larger than it was. It's from a longer seri
29 Aircellist : And it's inspired from the K-7, but the number of engines does not fit. Much larger indeed.
30 RussianJet : I see that - but it's still a crazy plane.
31 Starlionblue : You're probably right. Sorry should have noticed that.
32 Post contains links and images oly720man : There's the solar powered Helios that's all wing, pretty much http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Helios_in_flight.jpg More sensibly there's the WB-57
33 RussianJet : Always loved that plane. Huge wing alright, but somehow the big, integrated engines make it look nicely-proportioned.
34 Post contains links and images Dreadnought : My favorite - the one with turrets from a battleship added.
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