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Russian Aircraft Flight Instrument Questions  
User currently offlineczbbflier From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 974 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 1 month 8 hours ago) and read 5960 times:

Greetings-
Forgive my complete ignorance but I have always been curious about Russian flight instruments.

I've assembled a couple of pictures here and am very curious to know which instrument is which.... they don't seem overly self-explanitory to me (I can be a bit slow, I admit).

Would someone be so kind as to name them as I have labeled them?

Thank you kindly.




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Photo © Sergey Kustov




(Thanks to Sergey Kustov for this picture)
A-
B-
C-
D-
E-
F-
G-
H-

(D and E look like altimeters but why are there two? How does one adjust for barometric pressure differences?)

Is the turn indicator hidden behind the right yoke handle?

The other instruments that I haven't labelled appear to be all the radio instruments.



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Photo © Youri Kabernik - Russian AviaPhoto Team



(Thanks to Youri Kamernik for this picture)

I am curious about the large gauges above the windscreen.

A-
B-
C-

Obviously A (and there are four of them) are engine instruments. What do these instruments indicate? EGT? Engine RPM?

B is actually IN the overhead panel, above the engine instruments.
C is the anomaly. What does it indicate?

Thanks for educating!!!

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineak907 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 42 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5189 times:

First Pic (IL-76)

A- Mach Meter
B- Airspeed
C- not sure, maybe AOA and G meter
D- Altimeter
E- maybe backup Altimeter
F- Radio Altimeter?
G- my guess top four are trim settings, elevator and aileron. Bottom probably flaps or spoilers indicator.
H- Pressure gauge for something

Second Pic (IL-62)

A- Engine Vibration
B- Clock
C-

These links might help you:
http://de.academic.ru/pictures/dewiki/73/IL62_2.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../a/a0/Cockpit_Ilyushin_Il-76MD.jpg

[Edited 2013-09-02 22:15:11]

User currently offlineAF1624 From France, joined Jul 2006, 659 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5132 times:

Here's my take on it:

A- Mach meter (usual units)
B- Airspeed, in kilometers per hour (goes up to 11, so 1100km/h)
C- Angle of attack and G-meter
D- Radio altimeter in meters
E- Baro altimeter in meters (may be the other way around)
F- A navaid distance indicator in kilometers
G- Control surface position indicators
H- No clue

Second pic:

A- No idea, ofc some source of engine instrument
B- Clock, you can see 6 on the bottom, 3 on the right and 9 on the left
C- I would imagine it's the differential pressure indicator... but 5 seems a bit low to me as a max diff



Cheers
User currently offlineczbbflier From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 974 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4922 times:

Thanks, you two.

I appreciate your stabs at these.

I've always been curious and apparently, I'm not the only one stymied by the differences in instrumentation.

Cheers!


User currently offlinesovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2612 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4657 times:
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H - says something about "тормозах" (brakes) but I am not sure what exactly.

User currently offlinebueb0g From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 644 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4637 times:

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 4):
H - says something about "тормозах" (brakes) but I am not sure what exactly.

Brake pressure or temperature gauges maybe?



Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
User currently onlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6895 posts, RR: 76
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4480 times:

1st pict...
E- Baro altimeter in Feet
F- Distance Measuring Equipment (for VORDME) in Kilometers.
H- Brake Temperature gauge (2 wheels per gauge? It has 2 warning lights per gauge).

2nd pict...
A - Fuel Flow, outer = kilograms per hour, inner = liters per hour, all are x1000.
C, I dunno, looks like a total fuel burn.



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7704 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4311 times:
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Quoting sovietjet (Reply 4):
H - says something about "тормозах" (brakes) but I am not sure what exactly.
Quoting bueb0g (Reply 5):
Brake pressure or temperature gauges maybe?

Торомозах is the plural form of brakes in the prepositional case, meaning it is something 'in the brakes' - so, pressure or temperature are indeed the likely candidates.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6397 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4290 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 7):

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 5):
Brake pressure or temperature gauges maybe?


Торомозах is the plural form of brakes in the prepositional case, meaning it is something 'in the brakes' - so, pressure or temperature are indeed the likely candidates.

Don't most Soviet types use air brakes (because hydraulic brakes have issues in sub-Arctic conditions, like a Siberian winter)?



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlinetorontofly From Canada, joined Dec 2012, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4259 times:
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First Pic (IL-76)

H- Pressure in brakes kgf/sm2

Second Pic (IL-62)

C- is marked bellow as fuel tank #7. It is graduated in 1000 kg. I think it shows amount of fuel in a vertical stabilizer

[Edited 2013-09-07 17:10:24]

User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7704 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4199 times:
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Quoting KELPkid (Reply 8):
Don't most Soviet types use air brakes (because hydraulic brakes have issues in sub-Arctic conditions, like a Siberian winter)?

No idea. I'm no expert in such things. I was merely suggesting likely variants based on the word we could see,



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6397 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3970 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 10):
No idea. I'm no expert in such things. I was merely suggesting likely variants based on the word we could see,

Well, if it has Air Brakes (like a train or a truck), you would need to know the air pressure in the system. You can deplete all the air in the air brake system if you are careless   And when you do, you have no brakes...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineFabo From Slovakia, joined Aug 2005, 1219 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 weeks ago) and read 3877 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 8):
Don't most Soviet types use air brakes (because hydraulic brakes have issues in sub-Arctic conditions, like a Siberian winter)?

First time I hear that.

Besides, the normal use case is not that different for a 154 then say for a 732. Not every plane has to fly to arctic circle.

Now, to the pics. (Yeah, I know, repetition)

A. Combination machmeter / speedo. Almost definitely shows Mach and TAS in 1000s of KM/H (0.5 = 500km/h)
B. Combination IAS(CAS) / TAS speedo. Outer ring, IAS in km/h, inner ring TAS in km/h
C. AoA/G gauge. Very handy. I am wondering why it is not common in western types. Good for figuring out how far from stall you are, proper approach speed and similar.
D. Altimeter in meters. Setting in mmHg (760 being standart)
E. Altimeter in feet. Setting in hPa, probably. Cannot really see. You can see a yellow bug set to 200, if QFE is used this corresponds to typical ILS minimums.
F. DME
G. Flight controls position annunciator.
H. Brake pressure indicator.

Il-62
A. Fuel flow meter.
B. Clock.
C. Tank 7 fuel indicator. (the others are the instruments just under, we can only see the bottoms.



The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
User currently offlinercair1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1323 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3872 times:
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Quoting KELPkid (Reply 8):
Don't most Soviet types use air brakes

I don't think so. Airbrakes are not good in very cold weather. You get condensate due to the compressor (water), then that settles and freezes. It is very common for truck airbrakes to lock on when parked in cold weather.

In addition - airbrakes work 'backwards' from how most brake systems operate. The brakes are 'applied' by a spring and then released by air pressure. That is why, in a train or truck, you must wait for brake pressure to build to a certain level before you can release the brakes and move off. Prior to reaching that pressure - there is not enough to release the brakes. This is a fail safe system - if you lose pressure, you stop. Our fire trucks sit in the station on compressor so the brake pressure is up and we can move off immediately.

That means that if you loose pressure, you'd hit the runway with brakes/wheels locked.

There are air brake systems that run (ran) in the opposite sense - they used pressure to apply the brakes. They were called "straight Air Brakes". If you lost pressure - you lost brakes. In one sense, this is like a hydraulic system. The difference loosing pressure is much more common in air systems. They are under pressure all the time so if you develop even a small leak - you lose all your pressure. Hydraulic (braking) systems are under pressure only under braking - so they typically do not fail completely from a small leak.

Of course - you would build in redundancy - multiple systems - just like we do with conventional brakes. Some locomotives use straight air brake systems today - with redundancy.

One of our fire trucks is based on a 6x6 military AMG chassis and has been retrofitted with air brakes and air power steering. Works well except when turning a lot (like backing and filling to turn around), you can actually use the steering so much you drop the air system down and the brakes cage. You then sit there till you build enough pressure to release the brakes.

BTW - if your brakes lock and you and you power through, you can twist off the drive shaft (yes we have done that).



rcair1
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6397 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3690 times:

Quoting Fabo (Reply 12):
First time I hear that.

Besides, the normal use case is not that different for a 154 then say for a 732. Not every plane has to fly to arctic circle.

And yet, we have H:

Quoting Fabo (Reply 12):
H. Brake pressure indicator.

Why would you need to know brake pressure in a hydraulic system?   I've never seen a brake pressure indicator in anything that didn't have air brakes...

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 13):
I don't think so. Airbrakes are not good in very cold weather. You get condensate due to the compressor (water), then that settles and freezes. It is very common for truck airbrakes to lock on when parked in cold weather.

You can put a dryer in the line...I see them all the times on shop air compressor installations.

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 13):
There are air brake systems that run (ran) in the opposite sense - they used pressure to apply the brakes. They were called "straight Air Brakes". If you lost pressure - you lost brakes. In one sense, this is like a hydraulic system.

I'm guessing that if you were to put air brakes in an aircraft, this is the type you would use. You wouldn't want the brakes locked if the lines couldn't hold pressure...

EDIT: I've spent the evening scouring the internet for this info in a language I can read. Can't find it. I do know the Yak-52 and the AN-2 have air brakes...and I have heard from the (US) owners of those types that air brakes are quite common in Soviet aircraft. That is what I based my previous statements upon...

[Edited 2013-09-09 23:44:48]


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineFabo From Slovakia, joined Aug 2005, 1219 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3664 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 14):
EDIT: I've spent the evening scouring the internet for this info in a language I can read. Can't find it. I do know the Yak-52 and the AN-2 have air brakes...and I have heard from the (US) owners of those types that air brakes are quite common in Soviet aircraft. That is what I based my previous statements upon...

Yes, in small types. Not in jet airliners.

As far as I know, there were also western small types with air brakes in 30s-40s at least.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 14):
Why would you need to know brake pressure in a hydraulic system?   I've never seen a brake pressure indicator in anything that didn't have air brakes...

I have no idea - that is what it is though.
Maybe it had to do with Il-76 supposed use in wartime, i.e. transport on semi-prepared airstrips. These gauges are not present in this form on general use airliners (Tu-154 for example).



The light at the end of tunnel turn out to be a lighted sing saying NO EXIT
User currently onlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6895 posts, RR: 76
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3586 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 14):
Why would you need to know brake pressure in a hydraulic system?

All the Airbus FBWs have a brake pressure gauge... and those brakes are powered by hydraulics, as a separate analogue gauge.... the gauge includes an accumulator pressure, and brake pressure for left and right brakes... All three gauges only measure the Yellow Hyd system part of the brakes... which is the back up Hyd system for the brakes (normally running off the Green Hyd system).

Those gauges are used when the primary HYD for the brake system isn't available, so you're likely to have no anti-skid, or some other form of brake performance degradation depending on the brake system set up pertinent to the aircraft type... that's when you need the brake pressure gauges.



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
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