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Delta B717 Pilots...New Hires Or Pilot Training?  
User currently offlinelexkid12300 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 86 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4207 times:

Hi all:

Does anyone know how Delta will be selecting their pilots for the B717 once they're put into service on Sept 19th? Will they put their current pilots through training or will they hire new crews?

I highly doubt that any of the AirTran B717 pilots are going to leave Southwest, but there might be B717 pilots out there that refuse to switch to the B737. Would Delta hire crews that are current on the 717?

According to Delta's pay scale, pilots of the B717 and DC9-51 are scheduled to receive the same rate. Could Delta be training their DC9 crews to fly the 717? It just seems odd since the DC9 has VERY little cockpit/systems commonality with the B717. Unless Delta still employs pilots trained on the MD-11, i doubt any of their crews could fly the B717 without a lot of training.

What are your thoughts?

6 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJETSTAR From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1616 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4191 times:
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From what I understand all DC-9 aircraft up to the B-717 share the same DC-9 type rating, so all a pilot who is already rated in a DC-9 needs is differences training between the 2 different models.

JetStar


User currently offlineha763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3601 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4189 times:
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The 717 and DC-9 have the same type rating. The DC-9 and MD-80 pilots only need to go through a differences course to be able to transition to the 717.

User currently offlinelexkid12300 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4164 times:

Hmm... I'm assuming all of Delta's pilots flying DC9 and MD88/90 have the same DC9 type rating certifications, but will Delta combine all variants (including the new 717) on the same qualification? Or will Delta keep the qualifications separate like they have it now with the DC9 being separate from the MD88/90? I'm just wondering if Delta will have the B717 on the same bid line as the DC9 or MD88/90?

User currently offlinefreeze3192 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4055 times:

It's my understanding that they're going to be all different categories. 717, MD88/90, DC9.

The pilots bid for what they want in base/airplane/seat. Their seniority determines what they are actually are able to hold, and what they are awarded.

If they don't have enough crews to cover the new airplanes coming online, they'll have to hire. Which is exactly what they're planning on doing. Whatever airplanes have seats unfilled are where the newhires will go. At this point, I believe all airplanes smaller than the 757 have FO spots available in various bases.



"A passenger bets his life that his pilot is a worthy heir to an ancient tradition of excellence and professionalism."
User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4184 posts, RR: 37
Reply 5, posted (7 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4021 times:

Quoting lexkid12300 (Thread starter):
Hi all:

Does anyone know how Delta will be selecting their pilots for the B717 once they're put into service on Sept 19th? Will they put their current pilots through training or will they hire new crews?

I highly doubt that any of the AirTran B717 pilots are going to leave Southwest, but there might be B717 pilots out there that refuse to switch to the B737. Would Delta hire crews that are current on the 717?

According to Delta's pay scale, pilots of the B717 and DC9-51 are scheduled to receive the same rate. Could Delta be training their DC9 crews to fly the 717? It just seems odd since the DC9 has VERY little cockpit/systems commonality with the B717. Unless Delta still employs pilots trained on the MD-11, i doubt any of their crews could fly the B717 without a lot of training.

What are your thoughts?

This is not the way it works at all. We all have seniority numbers at the airline, and via that number we exercise our priority for bidding to different seats/fleets.

Bids are posted several times a year with aircraft fleet and seat (CA or FO) availabilities, and those seats are awarded in seniority order to those wanting them.

For example, when the initial 717 slots were posted, there were 150 CA and 150 FO slots. We have around 11800 pilots. You can be in any seat on any plane and bid to an availability. As long as you are not in your 2 year position freeze from a previous training event (i.e. having within the past 2 years bid to another seat and required training), you are free to bid to another position that your seniority can hold.

The most junior 717 CA position was awarded to someone right at # 7000 on the list (with 1 being highest and 11800 being most junior). There were around 30 unfilled FO slots, but the most senior spots on the FO list went quite senior due to having most of the summer off waiting for the planes to be delivered. The pilots that filled the CA slots came mostly from the 767ER and other widebody FO seats, plus of course some DC-9 and MD-88 captains. The pilots that filed the FO slots ranged from 767ER on the senior end to of course DC-9 and MD-88 at the bottom.

Only current MD-88 pilots get a shortened 6 day course for the 717. Everyone else requires the full 4 week course.



Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlinee38 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3974 times:

lexkid12300, just a few answers to some of your questions.

"there might be B717 pilots out there that refuse to switch to the B737."

lexkid12300, this statement doesn't make any sense. Why would a pilot flying the B717 refuse to transition to the B737? There is not a pilot out there who would surrender his/her seniority number at AirTran/Southwest and apply for a position at Delta, only to start again at the very bottom of the Delta seniority list and on probation as well. If this is what you think, you are not totally familiar with how pilot seniority works among airlines. Seniority does not transfer between companies.

"Will they put their current pilots through training or will they hire new crews?"

Many of the B717 pilots for Delta have already been trained, and since Delta has not commenced hiring new pilots yet, these pilots obviously came internally from other fleets at Delta. As mentioned by XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 5), the new B717 pilots came from among almost all the fleets at Delta.

"Unless Delta still employs pilots trained on the MD-11, . . ."

There are no crews at Delta still qualified on the MD-11. With regard to B717 training, it wouldn't make any difference anyway.

"Hmm... I'm assuming all of Delta's pilots flying DC9 and MD88/90 have the same DC9 type rating certifications, but will Delta combine all variants (including the new 717) on the same qualification? "

Yes, the type rating for the DC-9, MD-88/90, and B717 is the same (DC-9 type rating) but that is not necessarily the same as being "qualified" on the aircraft. There will be three separate qualifications: DC-9. MD-88/90, and 717. The training programs are different and pilots qualified for each of these three categories are not interchangeable--they are only "qualified" to fly one type of airplane, either DC9-50, MD-88 and MD-90 (that is a single qualification) or the Boeing 717.

"I'm just wondering if Delta will have the B717 on the same bid line as the DC9 or MD88/90?"

No, completely separate.

When Delta does begin to hire new pilots, those new-hires will be trained to fly whichever aircraft have first officer seat vacancies at the time of hire. This could be first officer positions on the 717, MD-88/90, A319/320, or even the 7ER category (757/767).

I know this may seem very confusing but read reply number 5 again, and let us know if you have more questions.

e38


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