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Crew Management For Infrequent Flights  
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19927 posts, RR: 59
Posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4453 times:

So let's suppose we're talking about a long, but infrequent flight that happens maybe once or twice per week, but has a short turn-around time at the destination.

What happens to the crew on the outbound leg? Do they nonrev back? That would kinda suck to have to nonrev back on a long flight just after working it. Or do they get stuck where they are for a week? That would suck, too.

How is this handled?

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6919 posts, RR: 76
Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4412 times:

Getting stuck there for a week isn't all that bad, especially if there are other destinations. However, doing the route continuously and yeah, you'd get bored pretty quickly.
If there's another destination nearby, with adequate layover between the two flights, they'd deadhead the crew from one destination to the other to minimize excess layover... (some crew prefer being stuck somewhere for a week than this deadhead during layover... Merida-Cancun had crew transfer charter flights for several airlines).



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25737 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4386 times:

Crews might layover for the week, or they might commercial out after rest either back to base, or another station to operate another flight.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinen92r03 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4329 times:

I have thought about this question for a while.

Consider the Edelweiss flight to TPA once a week. It has a 2-hour turn on Friday evenings. Would the crew stay in TPA for a week? There are no other nearby airports they serve...


User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4211 posts, RR: 37
Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4179 times:

Quoting n92r03 (Reply 3):
I have thought about this question for a while.

Consider the Edelweiss flight to TPA once a week. It has a 2-hour turn on Friday evenings. Would the crew stay in TPA for a week? There are no other nearby airports they serve...

There are 3 possibilities:

1. layover for the week.

2. dhd back on the return flight.

3. layover and dhd back on another airline.



Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlineGoBoeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2706 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4067 times:

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 4):
There are 3 possibilities:

1. layover for the week.

2. dhd back on the return flight.

3. layover and dhd back on another airline.

4. Edelweiss outstation base in Tampa.


 


User currently offlineoly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6810 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4037 times:

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 5):

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 4):
There are 3 possibilities:

1. layover for the week.

2. dhd back on the return flight.

3. layover and dhd back on another airline.

4. Edelweiss outstation base in Tampa.

5. Layover a couple of days and fly the return on another service from another airport.

Edelweiss fly to Las Vegas on Mondays and Tampa on Fridays, each giving a couple of days layover before picking up the opposite service as the return flight.

They also fly to Cancun and Punta Cana in the Dominican Republic and Vancouver.



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4653 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3830 times:

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 5):
:
There are 3 possibilities:

1. layover for the week.

2. dhd back on the return flight.

3. layover and dhd back on another airline.

4. Edelweiss outstation base in Tampa.




What does your reply mean ?  



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlinedavidho1985 From Hong Kong, joined Oct 2012, 372 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3812 times:
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Quoting Max Q (Reply 7):

What does your reply mean ?

Turnaround of Edelweiss TPA flight's crews regarding Reply 3


User currently offlinejagflyer From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 3547 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3424 times:

How about last minute equipment changes? If a flight is a 777 and one day they sub in a 747 due to the original 777 going mechanical. Who will fly the 747 back? I don't see how an airline could legally d/h a crew without proper rest. From what I always understood any deadheading ordered by the airline is considered to be "duty-time" even if the crew is not performing their duty.


Support the beer and soda can industry, recycle old airplanes!
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5051 posts, RR: 43
Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3410 times:

It is quite common to position crews on other airlines if the flight is not frequent. When cycles are generated, all costs are considered, and (rightfully so) the cheapest way to route is crew is done. Sometimes, from the outside, it is not so obvious why.

A few things to consider:

Positioning (deadheading) is at full pay if it is an irregular operation (equipment sub for example), or half pay if it a part of a regular cycle. Crews have pay guarantees ... both per duty day, and for the whole cycle. That is to stop the airline from flying you YYZ-XXX then sit for 7 days, then XXX-YYZ, and pay you only for YYZ-XXX-YYZ. Also, hotels, meals and ground transport is also factored into cycle generation costs.

So you may see a cycle like YYZ-XXX then position XXX-FRA, then layover 24 hours. Then FRA-YYZ.

Also, as crew utilization becomes paramount when short of crews, (like now), then very odd cycles are built to keep things efficient. Things like YYZ-YOW-FRA layover FRA-YYC layover YYC-NRT layover NRT-YYC layover YYC-LHR layover LHR-YOW-YYZ. (How the heck do you pack for something like that???) Or one I liked when I was a B767 F/O, YYZ-HNL layover HNL-SYD layover SYD-HNL layover HNL-YYZ. (easier to pack)

But as far as interesting goes, and certainly infrequent, I find the Jetz team charter cycles fascinating as there is a lot of positioning and long layovers in unusual places!



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4064 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2726 times:
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Back in the days, Sabena would charter small aircraft to position crew from one city to the next within Africa as some destinations were served only once or twice a week and intra-Africa flights were few and not always reliable. Nowadays Brussels Airlines does it only due to irregular operations, I believe.

Quoting jagflyer (Reply 9):
How about last minute equipment changes? If a flight is a 777 and one day they sub in a 747 due to the original 777 going mechanical. Who will fly the 747 back?

Airlines rarely have aircraft and crew ready to go at a moment's notice, especially of a different type. It is more likely that a one-day sub is planned well in advance due to overlapping maintenance in the regularly scheduled fleet.

If they do a last-minute sub, the returning crew will most likely come from a nearby outstation where the aircraft is regularly scheduled, but that means the outstation will suffer the consequences, obviously, so the airline must balance the need to operate a flight even with a different type against the cost of cancelling or delaying a flight elsewhere.

The bigger an airline is, the easier it is to do. For example, BA could substitute a 747 to the regularly scheduled 777 for LHR-PHL at the last minute, cancel a 747 to IAD, BOS or JFK and move the inbound crew from the cancelled flight to PHL to operate the return while accommodating the passengers from the cancelled flight on the other 2, 3 or 7 flights of the day.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlinegkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24947 posts, RR: 56
Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 8 hours ago) and read 2457 times:

I would imagine for the likes of a TOM 767 crew, they would do fly BHX-SFB, stay a couple of days, then do a SFB-NCL flight for example, an get taxied back to BHX?


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
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