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Moving To EU  
User currently offlinetarassovm From Canada, joined Sep 2013, 3 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 23 hours ago) and read 2604 times:

Hello,

I am a fresh flight instructor working in Canada and looking to move to EU and fly out of there (preferably UK). I plan to gain more experience here in Canada for the next two years and then move to Europe to fly. What are some of your thoughts/suggestions on how to do this? What are some of the challenges to be overcome to get flying in Europe?

Thank you, any input will be appreciated.

[Edited 2013-09-18 18:19:08]

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17040 posts, RR: 66
Reply 1, posted (1 year 22 hours ago) and read 2575 times:

The first hurdle is right to work. How will you solve that?


You'll need an EASA license. Commercial plus instructor rating. I don't know the instructor stuff but I do know what you need to convert a CPL with IR. Note that you may not need the IR to instruct. Not sure.
- EASA medical. Initial must be done at CAA Aviation House in Gatwick.
- 13 exams for CPL theory.
- Since you are converting, there are no hours requirements before checkrides, just "to proficiency". Count on 10-20 hours for IR and CPL.
- CPL checkride. I don't know anything about the Canadian CPL checkride. What I do know is that the EASA CPL checkride is very different from the FAA one.
- IR checkride.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlinetarassovm From Canada, joined Sep 2013, 3 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 22 hours ago) and read 2573 times:

I will be visiting UK within a year and could dedicate some of the time writing the CPL theory and completing the medical. Can you clarify what are those "proficiency" flights? I will be flying regularly until the time I plan to move so Im not sure how long those extra flights will take.

Thank you for a quick reply.


User currently onlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17040 posts, RR: 66
Reply 3, posted (1 year 21 hours ago) and read 2550 times:

What I mean by "to proficiency" is that you only need to fly enough for your instructor to sign you off for the checkride. This may take a few hours or a couple of dozen depending on how you progress. This is different from the formal hours requirement (hours spent in instrument or simulated instrument conditions for example) that you would have if you weren't converting. The formal hour requirement is waived since you already have a foreign license.

NOTE: I checked and EASA is 13 exams for CPL plus 7 exams for IR. I am not sure if they overlap but I think so. A breakdown of the exams with questions and times can be found here: http://www.atpforum.eu/attachment.ph...ttachmentid=374&stc=1&d=1328471239

Be wary of the workload for the exams. I haven't sat the CPL or IR ones, just the ATPL ones (which count for CPL and IR), so I can't tell you exactly how much work they entail. I do know the CPL ones are less demanding, but for comparison it took me 7 months of full time study (4-8 hours per day, 5-6 days a week) to get through the ATPL syllabus and sit the exams. This is considered slightly faster than average. Anyone here who has sat the EASA CPL exams can perhaps expand.

You may also be required to do mandatory ground school before the exams. For comparison, the ATPL groundschool requirement is about 4 weeks unless you're exempt due to flying experience (unless you have lots of multi-pilot time you are not exempt).

I suggest that you contact someplace like Bristol Groundschool and ask them your questions. They'll know exactly. http://www.bristol.gs/.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlinetarassovm From Canada, joined Sep 2013, 3 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (12 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2203 times:

Ok so the conversion hurdle figured out, what are the other issues that may arise?
I've been checking and a lot of jobs require a EU passport to fly. Is that true? Would a Canadian and Russian Passport suffice instead?


User currently onlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17040 posts, RR: 66
Reply 5, posted (12 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2171 times:

Quoting tarassovm (Reply 4):
I've been checking and a lot of jobs require a EU passport to fly. Is that true? Would a Canadian and Russian Passport suffice instead?

Yepp, true. You would have to ask individual companies what their policy is. The problem for you is that they get plenty of candidates with EU passports, so there's no reason to consider candidates with foreign passports.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1359 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (12 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2060 times:

Think you will find it very difficult obtaining a right to work in the EU, as you are seeking employment in a sector that is hardly deprived of local talent. Your best bet will be to marry an EU citizen, and gain a right to live and work within the EU that way. Doesn't help you on the passport front though; to get an EU passport you are looking at from around 4-9 years of residency before being eligible. However, with a Canadian passport that should not present an insurmountable obstacle. No, your real problem is the right to live and work in the EU.


From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7703 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (12 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2025 times:
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Quoting tarassovm (Reply 2):
I will be visiting UK within a year and could dedicate some of the time writing the CPL theory and completing the medical.

A general visitor to the UK may not study. A student visitor must attend an approved institution, which what you're suggesting won't cover. You're in complete limbo there. There's no defined route for that.

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 6):
Think you will find it very difficult obtaining a right to work in the EU, as you are seeking employment in a sector that is hardly deprived of local talent.
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 5):
The problem for you is that they get plenty of candidates with EU passports, so there's no reason to consider candidates with foreign passports.

     

You have very little chance of gaining permission to work in the UK on the basis you're suggesting.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineonetogo From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (12 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2014 times:

Many Asian/Middle Eastern carriers are desperate for pilots and have hired many already trained pilots from the US and other countries that have advanced flight training. Are there ANY carriers in Europe that are doing anything similar, or are they all just as hard to get hired as US mainline carriers?

User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1359 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (12 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1973 times:

Quoting Reply 8):
re there ANY carriers in Europe that are doing anything similar, or are they all just as hard to get hired as US mainline carriers?

There are plenty of airlines in Europe that will taken on 250 hour kids with a frozen ATPL, in fact nearly all of them will. There are a couple of 'gotcha', however, which you need to take into account. Some of the legacy carriers, KLM and LH to name two prominent ones, have had a cadet program running for years and recruits almost exclusively from that pool. To qualify, however, you need to have the right to work in the EU and be fluent in the local language. There are also airlines out there who will hire 250 hour kids, and offer them a paid job as a FO. The last option P2F, very common among the LCC fraternity.

So you could say it's a lot easier joining a European major, in so far as the hour requirements is much lower. But you WILL need to have the right to live and work in the EU, so it that regard the EU rules are no different from those of the US.



From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlineonetogo From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 months 1 hour ago) and read 1791 times:

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 9):

Let me clarify my position. Current CRJ-700 FO for an airline based in the US. FAA ATP certificate with CL-65 PIC type rating. 3000+ total time, 1000+ PIC time. Wondering what opportunities may exist in Europe. As many of us know, Asian and some Middle Eastern carriers are desperate for pilots with such qualifications. My question was about European carriers. I suppose primary questions would be about certificate conversion, citizenship, etc. PPrune would probably be better, but since this thread stuck out I figured why not post here.


User currently onlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17040 posts, RR: 66
Reply 11, posted (12 months ago) and read 1779 times:

Quoting Reply 10):
Current CRJ-700 FO for an airline based in the US. FAA ATP certificate with CL-65 PIC type rating. 3000+ total time, 1000+ PIC time.

There may well be opportunities but as mentioned there are plenty of qualified candidates in Europe so you have to stand out enough for a company to be willing to sponsor some kind of work permit.

You will need to convert to an EASA license, which means doing your EASA ATPL exams, all fourteen of them, plus checkride(s). Given your qualifications you are probably exempt from ground school but I would still recommend it since it makes the exams way easier.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1359 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1729 times:

Quoting Reply 10):
Let me clarify my position. Current CRJ-700 FO for an airline based in the US. FAA ATP certificate with CL-65 PIC type rating. 3000+ total time, 1000+ PIC time. Wondering what opportunities may exist in Europe.

For an EU based carrier, in a word: None. Without an EASA license you are unemployable for a EU based carrier. A FAA license can be converted, however, you are still facing the challenge of obtaining a right to work. If you are seeking employment as an airline pilot, chances of getting a working permit are so remote it doesn't even bear thinking about.

Perhaps if I put it this way: I have ca. 3000 hours, an EASA issued ATPL, a B757 type rating and an EU passport. What are my chances of landing an airline job in the US? Zilch, zero or none are, I guess, the answers, and the same applies the other way round.

Airline pilots are hardly a scarce commodity in either the EU or US. If you want out of regional flying and into the big jets, look in the direction of the ME (for a career) or China (for contract flying).



From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
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