Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Cask Vs Stage Length  
User currently offlineptahturan88 From Turkey, joined Nov 2013, 17 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2139 times:

Hi,

I have quarterly CASK and stage length data of Turkish Airlines. I am plotting CASK vs stage length on a scatter graph and I see a positive correlation between tho. How come is it possible? Doesn't CASK decrease with stage length?

Thanks for your help.

8 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineptahturan88 From Turkey, joined Nov 2013, 17 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2131 times:

There is also a positive correlation between ex-fuel CASK (const dollar) and stage length. I am quite confused now

User currently onlineRDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2091 times:

Quoting ptahturan88 (Reply 1):
There is also a positive correlation between ex-fuel CASK (const dollar) and stage length. I am quite confused now

Doesn't make sense. It should be a curve where it declines then eventually increases due to tankering of fuel. That unless you're looking at it from 30k ft then you could have a break point where the length of the mission goes from requiring 1 aircraft for the rotation to needing 2 aircraft.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24796 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2055 times:

I'm not quite sure what you are trying for, or what raw data you are looking at but here is TK's data directly.



As far as stagelength remember TK is not a stable airline.
It continues to add to its fleet mix with more narrowbodies having arrived then widebodies as its network grows. Narrowbodies by their nature have higher CASK.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineskyhawkmatthew From Australia, joined Oct 2005, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1803 times:

The CASK will decrease initially as the lower cruise fuel burn offsets the significant takeoff/climb burn, lowering the average burn for the flight. After a distance (I don't know what), however, the average cruise fuel burn will become greater due to carrying the weight of the additional fuel for the longer flight, causing the CASK to rise again with further increases in stage length.


Qantas - The Spirit of Australia.
User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6760 posts, RR: 76
Reply 5, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1748 times:

Plus, widebody + narrowbody combo does make a difference too.
Widebodies have higher CASK than narrowbodies, but you use the widebodies for longer sectors, so that already skews it... (higher CASK is for pax... doesn't count cargo, which is an essential piece of widebody operations... now if you have CATK (cost per available ton kilometer), then the trend would be negative correlation as expected again).
Add what the others have said, and it'll be a puddle of jumble...

Pegasus on the other hand, is narrowbody only? So the CASK will continue to lower the longer the stage length, up to a point where it will rise again albeit slowly.



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineptahturan88 From Turkey, joined Nov 2013, 17 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1575 times:

Thank you all for nice info.

Yea, Pegasus is narrowbody only. I think it's about THY's extraordinary growth story as you guys said. It's not a matured company yet.


User currently offlineptahturan88 From Turkey, joined Nov 2013, 17 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1381 times:

I re-read the posts and I think two posts are contradicting. Narrowbodies have higher CASKs or vice widebodies?
Thanks


User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6760 posts, RR: 76
Reply 8, posted (8 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1366 times:

Quoting ptahturan88 (Reply 7):
I re-read the posts and I think two posts are contradicting. Narrowbodies have higher CASKs or vice widebodies?

It depends on the labor supply behaviour of the country/company being looked at.
Here, the crew cost component between narrowbody and widebody aircraft per seat is generally equal.

Then we go to the configuration of the aircraft.
At max capacity CASK will be slightly cheaper on the narrowbody.
On single class non-sardine can, CASK will be cheaper on narrowbody.
On multi-class, it depends if they use the same seat pitches or not, if yes, it's equal if not cheaper on widebodies... if not, then it can make the narrowbodies cheaper.

Maintenance also depends. Basic consumable line maintenance effect on the CASK is cheaper on widebodies... BUT, once you go "full maintenance costing" for, say, 10 yrs (past and budgeted), then it can quickly make the narrowbody much cheaper on a CASK basis.

So, it all depends on what you're looking at, what cost behaviours you want to exploit in the analysis, etc...

My Post #5 is based on LCC configs based from what I know/seen... but where the widebodies are used for the range, not for the cram as many people in on a single trip...



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Cask Vs Stage Length
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Take-off Runway Length Vs Length Of Runway posted Tue Feb 12 2008 15:02:13 by CRJ900
Length Vs. Stabilizer Height posted Fri Dec 31 2004 20:44:08 by Klc317
737 Vs A319/A320 Gear Length posted Thu Jul 12 2001 18:48:29 by BUFjets
Bleed Vs. Non-Bleed Engines posted Mon Oct 21 2013 20:02:18 by JAAlbert
Taca Vs LAN Pilots For Domestic Flights In Peru posted Fri Sep 20 2013 02:29:24 by lax888
B737 Vs B757 Cockpit/Nose posted Mon Sep 2 2013 12:32:13 by questions
Pilot Minimum Hours And Experience EU Vs US posted Tue Aug 6 2013 10:20:54 by fpetrutiu
Schedules Vs Timetables posted Fri Aug 2 2013 12:15:41 by ergibson
Structural Strength Wing: A380 Vs 777 & 748 posted Tue Jul 30 2013 16:44:11 by Scorpio
Damage To Fuselage Aluminium Vs Carbon Fibre posted Fri Jul 12 2013 22:19:50 by dibble777

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format