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Engine Fires In Airliners  
User currently offlinePilot1113 From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2333 posts, RR: 11
Posted (12 years 5 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1792 times:

I have a question that's more geared to the airline pilots.

Would you say that engine fires are the most practiced emergencies in the simulator?

Thanks!

- Neil Harrison

9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBeefmoney From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1113 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (12 years 5 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1728 times:

Well, im not an airline pilot, just a Cessna 172 flyer, but I think that engine FAILURES are the most practiced emergencies, not engine fires, although im sure they practice those also. At least we do engine failures more than anything else in my Cessna, but I get to go in an AWA A320 sim in a month or two, so we will see for sure then!

User currently offlineRamper@iah From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 240 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (12 years 5 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1714 times:

Out of all, I think V1 cuts are probably the most practiced. I think that is the manuever that pilots find most difficult (depending on the aircraft, of course).

User currently offlineCx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6588 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (12 years 5 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1697 times:

I would agree that the V1 cut is the most I have done anyway. Sometimes it is a straight rundown, sometimes it is a fire, which complicates things slightly, especially if we are doing a takeoff in a hilly area with a complicated engine-out procedure.

User currently offlinePilot1113 From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2333 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (12 years 5 months 5 days ago) and read 1651 times:

Thanks guys!

I'm doing a speech about engine fires and I wanted a couple of quotes from actual airline pilots. That's why I asked a question that was actually very hackneyed for my knowledge.

- Neil Harrison


User currently offlineRamper@IAH From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 240 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (12 years 5 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1609 times:

This sequence of events could be typical during a sim session: Normal takeoff up to V1 speed, normal rotation, then an engine fire followed immediately by a failure. A special engine out departure is required, so while struggling to maintain aircraft control, a heading to intercept a radial must be initiated before acceleration altitude. After the engine is "cleaned up" and the aircraft is established on the engine failure departure route, a hold must be entered (teardrop entry) so a climb can begin to a safe altitude. Once the MSA (minimum safe altitude) is obtained, the pilots brief the localizer back course approach with four step-down fixes, which requires a DME arc to get established. The weather is quickly deteriorating below minimums. The single engine, nonprecision approach in mountainous terrain results in a go-around at decision altitude because of the poor visibility. The missed approach procedure can't be used because of the aircraft's lack of performance, so once again, the engine out departure must be flown. This has once been my experience in a simulator (type ride). Let's here others share their own.

User currently offlineBsergonomics From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2002, 462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (12 years 5 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1600 times:

Just for the introduction to your speech - there was a Ryanair 737 engine fire this evening on the Dublin - Stansted route. According to the BBC news website, there was a full emergency evacuation on landing at Stansted, with dowsing by ground tenders - 2 passengers treated for smoke inhalation.

Don't know if this helps.

The link is:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/england/newsid_1845000/1845386.stm



The definition of a 'Pessimist': an Optimist with experience...
User currently offlineChdmcmanus From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 374 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (12 years 5 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1559 times:

I would have to agree that V1 cuts are the most common, in our sim checks at least 1 is required for eval every year. The big picture is energy management; an engine fire is just one way of creating an abnormal situation.

On a side note, I had an engine fire about four years ago on climbout- everything went textbook, and we landed uneventfully. The systems and acft handled just like the sim, the only difference was that split second after initial indication that you asked yourself if it was real. In the sim you expect it so there is no "shock value"

Remember---"Aviate-Navigate-Communicate"

Regards,
ChD



"Never trust a clean Crew Chief"
User currently offlineFredT From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 2185 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (12 years 5 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1548 times:

On the technical side, certification requirements are that the engine firewalls shall be able to withstand an engine fire for 120 seconds without the fire spreading. Plenty of time to sort out the situation, verify that it is indeed an engine fire, verify what engine is on fire (that mistake has been done) and pull the fire handle. I think engine fires are indeed a bit overdramatized.

Cheers,
Fred



I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
User currently offlineB747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (12 years 5 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1532 times:

Engine fires - some considerations...
First of all, I hope... with my 747... to have a "good hot engine fire" at all times in the 4 engines... that is, a fire burning inside the combustion chambers...
Correct, we practice a lot of "engine fires" and "engine failures" in the simulator... engine failures are never much of a problem on takeoff for a 4-engine aircraft... and in the simulator, the "engine fire" drills for takeoff make the emergency "a lesser problem" to compare to "engine failure" drills... an engine that is on fire still produces its thrust... dont shut it down... until you have reached a safe height above obstacles.
For approaches and landings in simulators, we practice 1 and 2 engine out approaches... the "1 engine out" are no different than "normal all engine approach"... and the "2 engine out" are very easy to perform, provided you observe speeds and profiles as published...
Reading some gentlemen here "sweating" or "struggling" for that engine out/on fire departure profile, I assume must be standard operating procedures for some Hollywood airline disaster movie... well, I understand some good actors would love to be pilots...
Cheers all...


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