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DC-10 To MD-10 Conversion  
User currently offlineVictech From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 546 posts, RR: 2
Posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4097 times:

I know that FedEx and others have converted DC-10s to MD-10s. What's entailed in the conversion? Engine replacements, systems upgrades, etc.? Thanks.

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBoomer From United States of America, joined May 1999, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (13 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3919 times:

The conversion consists of the structural modifications necessary for the installation of a main cabin cargo door. Along with the cargo door, many other structural modifications are accomplished to enhance the service life of the aircraft and increase its gross weight capability. For example, reinforcements are made to the fuselage and wings, and in many cases, the existing cabin floor structure is replaced with higher strength components to increase the load capacity of the cabin floor.

Many systems changes are made, mainly around the conversion of the flight deck from a three-crew setup to a two person crew just like the MD11. This requires extensive avionics and other modifications.

The aircraft also gets a complete structural and systems inspection and repairs (like a complete overhaul) to make sure the aircraft is in top-notch shape and will last a long time in service (at least long enough to make the modification costs worth it). The engines, for example are replaced with overhauled ones of the same type.

A majority of the wire harnesses are replaced, as they existing ones are rather old, and deterioration of insulation would be a concern if the aircraft were continued in service for another 20 years.

The project itself requires several months to accomplish, and requires over 100,000 man-hours of labor.

Hope this gives you some idea of what is involved.


User currently offlineVictech From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 546 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3816 times:

Thanks very much, this was exactly what I was looking for.

User currently offlineEvilboy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3765 times:

Hrm, 100,000 hours is alot of time for the conversion. If anyone wants to convert their DC-10 to a MD-10 I will do it for 50 bucks.

User currently offlineDL_Mech From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1926 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3722 times:

What are the differences between the MD-11 and MD-10 flight decks? Different engine start levers was all that I could see.


This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
User currently offlineB767-400er From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2000, 290 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3709 times:

I don't think there is many differences between the MD-11/Md-10. Cause it's a direct transplant. I'm not sure but I think UPS requested that so that when the Md-11s are to be convented to 11F, the changes will be easier. But this is only what I think, there was no support for this explaination.

Tony,
B767-400er


User currently offlineBoomer From United States of America, joined May 1999, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3703 times:

DL_Mech-
There are very few differences between the MD10 and MD11 cockpits. That is the whole point of the conversion. Boeing refers to the cockpit mod as the "Advanced Common Flightdeck (ACF)". Subtle differences remain due to the differences in the systems of the two aircraft. For example, the fuel and pneumatic systems are somewhat different and their respective glass-panel displays and switchlights reflect those differences (no tail tank, etc.)

Tony-
I am not aware of any desire or intentions of UPS to operate MD10 or MD11F aircraft. Perhaps you were thinking of FedEx. Even so, I am confused about what you mean by "when the Md-11s are to be converted to 11F". How does the MD10 fit into MD11 conversions?

It should be noted that the MD10 is not as much of a "transplant" as it may seem. The MD10 received a new type certificate. It is genuinely its own aircraft. Unlike the MD11, the MD10 was not veiwed as a deriviative aircraft for the purpose of certification by the Los Angeles ACO.


User currently offlineB767-400er From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2000, 290 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (13 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3679 times:

Boomer:

Sorry, I should've been more clear. I was thinking that when the Passanger Md-11 that are flying now days will one day be like the Dc-10, be convert to a cargo version. And I didn't take into account that Md-10 and Md-11 will have a different certificate, cause I guess they would've been pretty simular with the same cockpit.

Regets.
 

Tony,
B767-400er


User currently offlineBoomer From United States of America, joined May 1999, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (13 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3676 times:

Tony-

No regrets necessary. In fact, you are correct that MD11s are slated to be converted to freighters. FedEx has desires to acquire and convert many more. For whatever reasons the passenger haulers disliked the MD11, it has found great favour as a package and container freighter.


User currently offlineTubeampguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (13 years 9 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3619 times:

I was a structures mechanic on the MD-10 program at BOEING for the first two planes that were used for flight test. Myself and two others personally completed the rework on the cockpit floor as well as many other job assignments.

User currently offlineWidebodyphotog From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 917 posts, RR: 67
Reply 10, posted (13 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3581 times:

Hi!

I have been wondering about an aspect of the MD-10 conversion. I was wondering if it would be worhtwhile to convert DC-10-40's w/PW JT9D's to PW4000 powered MD-10's? According to Pratt' the engines are of the same mounting dimensions. Could the case be made for a simple upgrade given the major performance advantages of the PW4000 over the JT9D?

Just wondering

Widebodyphotog



If you know what's really going on then you'll know what to do
User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (13 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3574 times:

Why hasn't the MD-10 conversion include the winglets from the MD-11?

User currently offlineWidebodyphotog From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 917 posts, RR: 67
Reply 12, posted (13 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3560 times:

The MD-11 Wing is an almost completly different structure than the DC-10 wing. It would not be a matter of simply grafting on the MD-11's winglet "kit". In point of fact winglets were experimented with on an early model -30 but performance gains were not significant enough to warrant production. However the 11's wing is a totally redesigned wing from the airfoil up and there are only minor structural similarities between the two. Something really neat would be to take out the Fuselage plugs that make a DC-10 fuselage an MD-11 fuselage. Basically you would have a 20ft shorter MD-11, with about an 8500+ nm range! Interesting, but I don't think that Boeing would do it...


If you know what's really going on then you'll know what to do
User currently offlineSabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 47
Reply 13, posted (13 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3561 times:

So Boeing actually DOES understand the advantage of a common flight deck?
Maybe they should try it on the B777/B747/B737/etc.
After all, it is exactly what made Airbus so big...


User currently offlineB767-400er From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2000, 290 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (13 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3557 times:

Sabenapilot:

Actually, I think Boeing has been trying that lately. When you look at the pics of 767-400er, 777s, 747x, 737Ngs, you can't find much differences between them(except maybe the colour). I'll say that's what Boeing is doing for commom cockpit...

Tony,
B767-400er


User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (13 years 8 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3568 times:

Does the MD-10 conversion include having a locking slat system that the DC-10 lacked, which was one of the reasons for the crash of AA191 in May 1979?

User currently offlineBoomer From United States of America, joined May 1999, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3534 times:

A slat-lock system is not a provision at this time. The only related slat modification that I recall being discussed was the incorporation of slat control system modifications that are already commonplace on MD11's (also known as Electric Slats) which is a FBW system.

User currently offlineFDXmech From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3251 posts, RR: 34
Reply 17, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3520 times:

On the MD11, there is 2 types of slat locking devices. One is a "slat extend latch" which prevents slat retraction should 1 of the slat drive mechanisms mechanically fail.when the slats are extended. The other is a series of slat balance relief valves which prevent slat retraction if a hydraulic failure occurs. (AA ORD 1979). The DC10 incorporates the balance relief valves as does the MD10.


You're only as good as your last departure.
User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3492 times:

What are the chances of a charter airline who cannot afford buying new 777s or A330s modifying their DC-10s to the MD-10 configuration?

User currently offlineBoomer From United States of America, joined May 1999, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3488 times:

FDXMech, you are correct. An oversight on my part.

Tedski, the conversion itself is a type change accomplished through the manufacturer's engineering authority. There have been DC10 operators, other than FedEx, that have approached Boeing about this mod for their aircraft, but I am not sure if any are definitely scheduled. I believe that China Eastern and EVA were a couple who, at one time, were considering this.


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