Captjetblast From Argentina, joined Aug 2001, 289 posts, RR: 0 Posted (13 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3084 times:
Aeroperu 604 flight, 1996, took off with its static ports taped. As a result, altitude and speed were not known by the pilot. The flight ended dishing into the Pacific Ocean, all aboard killed.
In the transcript (very interesting):
at 00:59:55, the copilot asks for another aircraft to guide them back to Lima (it was at night, over the ocean, with no visual references). Then the captain rejected the idea (why?).
My question is: if a 707 (as offered by Lima ATC) was sent to the rescue, would it work? Is it possible for a, let's say, 707 pilot guide a 757 safely back to ground, I mean, a big plane guiding another big one?
L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 30174 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (13 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3018 times:
Sure...Ever see those photos of the chase planes calling out altudes when the space shuttle lands. You don't even have to go that far. If they are getting readouts from a ground controller it shouldn't be a problem......Remember the big landing scene when Dean Martin flies that damaged 707 on a Precision Radar Approach? Same idea.
I have seen Boeings volcanic ash awarness video and they go over some procedures to use when instruments may become "unreliable" due to an ash encounter.
Actually when I first read this subject I thought you where going to ask something else. I have heard a rumor of that once. An F80 over Korea during the war got it's engine shot out and reportedly was "pushed home" by another F80...His buddy just stuck his nose up the tailpipe and got him home to gliding range.
Sorry can't back the validity of that story.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
TechRep From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (13 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3000 times:
I have also heard a similiar story where a KC135 Tanker assisted an F-16. The F-16 had some engine trouble and was only producing a limited thrust of about 20%. The Tanker would hook up to the F-16 via the boom pull it up to a high altitude and release it. It did this many times getting it across the pond safley.
Zionstrat From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (13 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2986 times:
OK, I'll bite and take this off topic and military if you're interested in a cooperation story, but probably not the way you were thinking-
In Vietnam, 2 F4s took heavy fire as they pulled out after a bomb run- Both were badly damaged but they were able to climb and stabilize-
They turned towards the gulf and one of the 2 F4s flamed out both engines- Restart was not possible and when he declared his intention to bail out (over enemy territory), his buddy told him to wait while he tried something, pulled in behind the un powered F4, and gave it a nudge on the tail with his nose-
This managed to add speed to the un powered F4, so they held altitude and tried it again- They continued in this manor until they were clear of land, at then they all bailed out because the F4 that retained power was in no shape to make a landing. I believe everyone was recovered safely.
So air to air navigation may be a challenge, but it sounds like the Navy has air to air towing under control
PPGMD From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (13 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2979 times:
That was the biggest lack of CRM that I have ever heard of. The co-pilot was correct they should have accpeted radar vectors into the apporach and just fly the ILS with the ATC giving them speed callouts. One mistake that they forgot is that ATCs alt output is based on a static pressue output so if your static ports are blocked what they have is wrong.
I think the co-pilots idea of having another aircraft to guide them would have been a good idea too.
Theiler From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 633 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (13 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2887 times:
Would it be possible for an ATC, or another ground based controller (such as a GCA controller) to utilize a Mode III PAR approach to assist a pilot in manuevering? Being that this is a three-dimensional radar, does it still require an "open" static tube on board?
This is only an option for a final approach, but is a PAR approach even available at civilian airports, or is it strictly a military thing? I have a -very- limited knowledge on the subject.
747Teach From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 176 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (13 years 6 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2849 times:
Captjetblast: The incident Zionstrat is referring to occured March 10, 1967. Two U.S. Air Force F-4's of the 433 TAC Fighter Wing from Ubon Royal Thai AFB, were in a group of aircraft attacking a steel production plant at Thai Nguyen, north of Hanoi, when they were both hit by groundfire. The aircraft flown by Capt. Earl Aman, with backseater Bob Houghton, was holed and losing fuel. Capt. Bob Pardo, with backseater Steve Wayne, manuvered their F-4 behind and beneath Aman's crippled plane, and had Aman lower his tailhook. Capt. Pardo then pushed Aman's damaged aircraft approximately 88 miles back into Laotian airspace by pressing his windshield against the shoe on the bottom of the hook. Capt. Pardo's F-4, which had also been hit, began to experience high engine temps and fire warnings, so the aircraft separated and all four crew members ejected, and were rescued. Capt. Pardo and his backseater eventually received the Silver Star for their heroism. If you do a search on "Pardo's Push," you can find out much more about this episode. Regards,