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Throttle On Cessna And The Like.  
User currently offlineMirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7444 posts, RR: 62
Posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7836 times:
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I'm sure I am not the only one that, when flying, imagines themselves as flying a bigger bird, right?

I just have always wondered why the makers of smaller planes such as Cessnas don't have the throttle the same way that the jets do. (or for that matter, like the Navajo does.)

Just a thought for future flight models.

But am I the only one that feels that way?


Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
75 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePPGMD From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7689 times:

Cheaper is the reason that I would guess.

Most Pipers have the traditional throttle, along with the modern Beechcrafts. It really depends on what the manufactor wanted to put on it.



At worst, you screw up and die.
User currently offlineSkyguy11 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7682 times:

Fly a Diamond Katana! Feel that 125hp engine power under the hood!  Big thumbs up

User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7671 times:

Hello Mirrodie.

You're not alone. A sexier throttle in the cockpit of Cessna 152's & 172's, etc, would be nice. Those small round knobs (the throttle) with their friction locks don't exactly make you feel powerful. They feel rather simple, but I guess that's all that is needed...so why make it more complicated? From a mechanical view.

The small throttle quadrant on Piper Cherokee's isn't bad. The PA-28's have similar engine power as Cessna singles though, so I guess it's just Piper's preference.

I think the throttles in a Piper Navajo let you know you're in control of a larger, more powerful machine.

Cessna Skyhawk
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Photo © Hans Engels


Piper Cherokee
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Photo © Ian Haskell


Piper Navajo
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Photo © Sean Selkon



Chris  Smile



"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlineNormalSpeed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7649 times:

Well, having been raised on Cessnas, I have no issues with the way their throttles are. I fly a Cessna 172 S, among others, and I assure you that you can feel all 180 of it's horsepower with the throttle in the "old" style.

Also, I thought it worthy of mention that Mooneys, some of the fastest single-engine airplanes out there, have throttles just like the Cessnas, and that includes those Mooneys that are rolling off the assembly line right now. Come on, guys. A throttle is a throttle.


User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7643 times:

That's true NormalSpeed, a throttle is a throttle. I agree. It's design can't change how much horsepower is at your fingertips. However, I also understand what Mirrodie is curious about.

Chris  Smile



"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlineContinental From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5521 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7642 times:

I would also guess cost. I know that the Cessna I fly at Anoka has a little stick with a flat grey knob at the end. I can't wait till I get to use the throttles like on the 747's!

Continental


User currently offlineThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1660 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7627 times:

The Cessna throttle makes it very easy to make small power changes without looking at the throttle, a real plus on an ILS. You can adjust the friction lock while your hand is on the throttle and it is easy to see throttle "creep."

User currently offlineApathoid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7618 times:

Simplicity. Try changing the throttle cable on a Piper. You will cuss the brain dead engineer that came up with it. Then change the throttle cable on a Cessna. 1/2 hour later you are flying again.

User currently offlineTT737FO From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 472 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7608 times:

>>>"Then change the throttle cable on a Cessna. 1/2 hour later you are flying again."

Bullshit. I just replaced the throttle cable on a friend's 172 last month. (The cable broke during our runup--what luck). It takes at least 1/2 hour to take the cowling apart. As I recall, it took about 1 hour to replace the throttle and cable itself (including adjustment time). From there it took 1 hour to get the cowling back on (the lower half is an ornery bitch). All told it was close to a 3 hour deal. Not really a model of simplicity. BTW we didn't fly right away again because we each drank a six pack in the hangar afterwards from being worn out.

Yet the Cessnas are really a model in simplicity--at least design wise. The construction of the panel, firewall and engine mounting make sense to have the cable attached by a knob right on the panel. It's easy to manage power, and it really is easy to fly IFR without making excess movements with head and arms--thereby throwing off equilibrium.


User currently offlineApathoid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7594 times:

I have watched you pilots try to be mechanics and it is a true exercise in hilarity. Just because a bumbling flyboy can't change it quickly, doesn't mean it is difficult. I once watched a pilot try to change his spark plugs with a pair of vise grips. I don't even own vise grips. Go back to what you know how to do, leave the maintenance to us.

User currently offlinePPGMD From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7590 times:

I found that its best to at least learn the basics. One of my friends is an IA, I make sure to be around him alot when hes working on the planes. Just helping him out teachs me alot about the basics on working on them.


At worst, you screw up and die.
User currently offlineCosync From Mexico, joined Nov 2001, 556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7576 times:

yeh im 15 and im a bit of a mechanic myself. did work experience at the local aero club hangar a while back and knew heaps. The other day i had a real test though, the lawnmowert conked out so i fixed it Smile
i was quite happy.


User currently offlineErj-145mech From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 306 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7561 times:

The reason that Pipers have a quadrant and Cessna's don't is that Piper, in its design, is preparing pilots for advancement to higher performance type aircraft that have power quadrants, ie Navajo's. Multi engined aircraft have quadrants because it's easier for power adjustments on more than one engine with one hand.

Dave
Continental Express Airlines
Knoxville, TN


User currently offlineNormalSpeed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7554 times:

I have watched you pilots try to be mechanics and it is a true exercise in hilarity. Just because a bumbling flyboy can't change it quickly, doesn't mean it is difficult. I once watched a pilot try to change his spark plugs with a pair of vise grips. I don't even own vise grips. Go back to what you know how to do, leave the maintenance to us.

As a flyboy, I can say that I completely agree.


User currently offlineApathoid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7549 times:

I apologize for my pissy tone, but it galls me at times when someone with no true experience tells me that he knows everything about my job. I would not presume to tell him it's not so tough to shoot a NDB approach to minimums with 40 knot wind shears. While I may be a weekend flyboy, I don't have that type of experience. On days like that, I stay home so I can't tell him what that is like or how hard it should be. By the same token, as an experienced AMT, in my judgement a throttle cable change on a Cessna can be done with ease with one hand tied behind my back.

User currently offlineDragogoalie From Australia, joined Oct 2001, 1220 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7538 times:

I hate the throttles on the Cessna. They're a pain cause you can't really rest your hand on them like you can on the piper. The piper one moves smoother too and is easier to fine tune. Not to mention it just looks cooler  Wink/being sarcastic. In fact, now that I think about it, I don't like cessna much...

--dragogoalie-#88--



Formerly known as Jap. Srsly. AUSTRALIA: 2 days!
User currently offlinePmk From United States of America, joined May 1999, 664 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7519 times:

Okay guys let the Piper vs. Cessna fight start! Personally after flying both I love the Warrior and hate the Cessna. I find the Piper flies more like a "real" airplane and it is designed as a trainer, where the Cessna is a trainer designed to train you to fly a Cessna for the rest of your career. As I am making the transition from my PPL to a A complex High power (for my new Pilatus, but that's another post) I will tell you the Piper was better for all around training than the Cessna. That being said I do like the Piper throttle better because the lack of friction locks makes it easier to get the right throttle position without having to get close and then see how much the lock is going to move the throttle rod.

Peter


User currently offlineFredT From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 2185 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7505 times:

I think the Cessnas were designed to fill the 50s vision of a car that can fly. This would go a bit towards explaining the for aviation rather atypical instrument panel design.

Cheers,
/Fred



I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
User currently offlineIllini_152 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1000 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7489 times:

Ah... lets not get into this one now. I presume most of this is Cessna tricycle gear single vs. the PA28 line?

1. High-lift wing. The Cessna wing is much more suited for high-lift, high AoA flight. Stalls much slower than a typical Piper product. Makes 'em better short field planes. Looking at the book for the stock '73 Skylane that I fly stalls at 55 mph; it can get in and out of a 1000' strip with trees on either end with ease at gross.

2. 2 doors; if I go in off airport, I've got a second way out of the plane. If the right wing on a PA28 folds up, you're pretty much screwed.

3. Barn doors. Flaps are incredibly effective compared to the tiny little things on PA28 series.

Now, I do like the Pipers for somethings. They are generally quicker than a comperable Cessna product. They are differant planes with differant purposes; the Piper is like that little coupe or sedan. The Cessna is like your pickup truck.

BTW- not all Pipers are bad; I just LOVE the J3, PA18, well, most all the ragwing pipers. (BTW, early Cherokee 140's had the knobs.) And also, my time is about evenly split between Cessna singles and Cherokee products.



Happy contrails - I support B747Skipper and Jetguy
User currently offlineNormalSpeed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7490 times:

I hate the throttles on the Cessna. They're a pain cause you can't really rest your hand on them like you can on the piper. The piper one moves smoother too and is easier to fine tune.

Huh. That's funny. Someone forgot to mention it to me, because I've been resting my hand on the Cessna throttle most of my flying career. And anyone who has any type of experience in a Cessna knows that you can easily "fine tune" the throttle setting by adjusting the throttle with your index finger touching the stop. Try that in a Piper.

Now, lest anyone think me anti-Piper, I have to say that I love flying the Archer. Also, I have about 20 hours in a Cherokee 140, and I think it's a really fun airplane. But as far as the strenghts of Cessna, I'm with Illini_152.

'Speed


User currently offlineThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1660 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7488 times:

Geewhillikers, I can adjust the RPM on a 172 within 25 RPM without even looking at either the throttle OR the RPM gage. I can make the appropriate power reduction after an IMC takeoff in a C210 with three little twists of the wrist without looking at the throttle or the MP gage. Not likely to get vertigo from that like I might from looking down/up/over/down. I can understand the "throttle quadrant" fantasy but please try to confine that Walter Mitty stuff to Microsoft Flightsim.

As for no friction lock, Hah! Just wait until the throttle creeps back on you on a dark night IMC climbout.


User currently offlineIllini_152 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1000 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7446 times:

Oh, forgot one HUGE benefit of the Cessna-style throttles that I figured out on my way up to Oshkosh last year.

Out of a 5:30am takeoff, still had quite a bit of coffee left. Found out with the prop and mixture set just right for 24"/2400 150 rich of peak at 4500 in the Skylane, a McDonald's coffee cup fits PERFECTLY between the throttle and prop controls. The cessna cup holder.

take a look:
http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~momalley/SkylaneCupholder.JPG



Happy contrails - I support B747Skipper and Jetguy
User currently offlineMirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7444 posts, RR: 62
Reply 23, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7442 times:
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Wow. Thanks for the interesting responses. I just thought I was the only one that thought it.

Normal SPeed- Re: the throttle i s throttle remark, I understand that completely but was wondering why, if that's what consumers 'might' want, most planes just didn;t have the same functional throttle. I mean, the same argument could be said of cars right? But where are 99% of the throttles found, nes pas?

Illini_152- Now thats a pitch for Cessna if I ever saw one! LOL  Nuts You may find a very cooshy job in Cessna's advertising dept!



Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
User currently offlineNormalSpeed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (12 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7418 times:

Normal SPeed- Re: the throttle i s throttle remark, I understand that completely but was wondering why, if that's what consumers 'might' want, most planes just didn;t have the same functional throttle. I mean, the same argument could be said of cars right? But where are 99% of the throttles found, nes pas?

Hmm.... At first blush, I would have thought it was closer to 60%. I'll have to check on that.


25 Skyguy11 : Yes, they specifically calibrated the prob and throttle controls for that purpose lllini_152.
26 Post contains images XFSUgimpLB41X : Interesting comparison weve got going here... i teach in both the PA28 Archer II and the C-172. After hundreds of hours in both, I am sold on the Arch
27 Illini_152 : OK, that Archer/Skyhawk comparison just ain't a fair one. You're comparing the climb performance of a 150-160hp airplane to that of a 180 hp airplane.
28 NormalSpeed : As much as I love Cessnas for their familiarity... Let's compare the newer Cessna 172 SPs with the Archer, since they are both 180 h.p. And even thoug
29 Mirrodie : "(except for the cup-holder part). But I'll tell you this much, my decision wouldn't be based on what type of throttle each airplane has" Thoroughly a
30 Post contains images Pmk : I agree, my decision on aircraft does not hinge on the placement, type, color, weight, or taste of the throttle . I just prefer the Piper. BTW all pil
31 Dg_pilot : I am nuetral as well. And bickering about which throttle is better is plain stupid. Those who say one is absolutely better because it has a "big jet f
32 Post contains images Ralgha : I'm gonna have to back up XFSUgimpLB41X against Illini_152 here on the short field bit. A Super Cub can stop on a dime, and I can get an Arrow down an
33 Dragogoalie : As for no friction lock, Hah! Just wait until the throttle creeps back on you on a dark night IMC climbout. Thats why you keep your hand on the thrott
34 Post contains images Ralgha : That's why you buy a Cessna with skylights and make all your turns at 60 degrees or greater.
35 Post contains images Dragogoalie : lol, yeah, that woudl be fun --dragogoalie-#88--
36 Apathoid : Funny... I have worked in the Bush in Alaska for years and almost no one flies Piper singles out here. Why? They don't hold up. The 180, 185, 206, 207
37 Illini_152 : Allright, I'll give you 500 foot ground roll in the Arrow MAYBE with good technique and smoking the brakes with one person in it, dragging in in with
38 XFSUgimpLB41X : hehe... props to Ralgha. Sorry it took me so long to update my respected list, bro. Yes.. it is very possible to land an Archer in 200 feet. It is nec
39 Mirrodie : Getting back from the way off tangent... Those of you "bickering" about it have issues. I just wanted to know the reasons behind certain designs. In t
40 Apathoid : If you are stopping your King Air in less than 1000 feet then your chief pilot AND your mechanic ought to be kicking you square in the nuts. There is
41 Jetguy : I've got to agree with Apathoid on the braking thing. I'm sure you can stop the KA within 1000 feet, but braking that hard and going that deep into be
42 Post contains images XFSUgimpLB41X : Hey man.. its not like we do it everyday.... just goofing off on a dead leg (yeah lets toss the passengers through the cockpit door)-and weve only don
43 Apathoid : but i can usually stop the King Air 200 in around 1000 feet or less What did I misinterpret about that statement? just goofing off on a dead leg Not t
44 Ralgha : Oh, so a guy that goofs off on a dead leg occasionally is a cowboy and a bad pilot? I happen to have a friend that is about the safest pilot that I've
45 Jetguy : Come on guys, I'll give XFSUgimpLB41X the benefit of the doubt here. I admit to taking his comment "...but i can usually stop the King Air 200 in arou
46 Apathoid : Oh, so a guy that goofs off on a dead leg occasionally is a cowboy and a bad pilot? Aren't you the one who said don't talk about it if you don't know
47 XFSUgimpLB41X : Thank you for the lecture, Apathoid...if you want to feel like you are a high and mighty pilot above all of us, go for it. Your comparisons are comple
48 Apathoid : I work with guys like you. I know I will never convince you... and likewise I am wholly convinced you don't belong in the cockpit. We will have to agr
49 TT737FO : GREAT! Another working class hero in our midst. Pissed off at the pilot world for mishandling his hangar queens. Did it ever occur to you that a pilot
50 Apathoid : Oh, another brain trust in the cockpit. He said nothing about testing capability. He said he pounded them on and pulled full reverse cuz he was "goofi
51 Apathoid : By the way, not that you will listen, but not all 152's are spin certified. When you go up and "goof off" like that with non cageable gyro's, you agai
52 Flyf15 : Its all about wether you like repeatedly pushing in and pulling out or constantly sliding back and forth with a little rotation involved, I'm a Cessna
53 TT737FO : Here's one I really enjoyed. The grease monkey comes in all covered in...grease. He's locked the keys to his trailer in his 1976 Dodge Tradesman van.
54 Apathoid : yep, that was certainly a valid argument. Shows why you are still an FO but go strolling through the airport like you just shot down the red baron. he
55 NormalSpeed : Another working class hero in our midst. Pissed off at the pilot world for mishandling his hangar queens. TT737FO, Ouch, that was kind of low, wasn't
56 Apathoid : Thank you normal. I must apologize to those of you who do treat us with the respect our expertise does deserve. Not all of you deserve my wrath, but s
57 Metwrench : XFSUGIMPLB41X, I read your profile, you state you are 20 years of age or younger. Since when did you get all this wordly experience? If you want to go
58 TT737FO : >>"Who designated you a test pilot" I never claimed to be one. Our Test Pilot school is at Pax River Maryland. I guess we are into semantics. I have n
59 Apathoid : How is spinning a non-aerobatic aircraft like the 152 being "safe and responsible?" Only a precious few 152's were designate Aerobats, and it is not t
60 Post contains images XFSUgimpLB41X : Actually just turned 21.. guess its time to update the profile, haha. I have 700 hours of flying time, the company i teach for also has a charter oper
61 Metwrench : Oh, it possible to get along, but only with respect from both sides of the fence. Sometimes people don't realize that there are more A&P's with Pilots
62 XFSUgimpLB41X : Most Cessna 152's and 172's are approved for spins. If the airplane says "not approved for spins" on the placards, we obviously wont spin it. The gyro
63 Metwrench : Not including overtime, I have 39,900 hours maintaining aircraft. Simulators are great, that's where you are supposed to test the limits. Not with som
64 Jetguy : Geeze, this is getting good. We'd better be careful though or Johan's going to make us take our toys and go home. Spin training... This is where I dif
65 Apathoid : I would fully agree with your spin ascertations. I will never accept that abusing an airplane because you feel like "goofing off" is a good thing to d
66 Illini_152 : Wow, leave for a day and look how a thread explodes... Where to start... Jetguy, great posts, esp. wrt spins. Couldn't agree more, the only 152's that
67 TT737FO : I have no doubt that the examples listed by Apathoid have, in fact, occured. It serves to give pilots an unprofessional, and, in fact, stereotypical i
68 Apathoid : The "rocket" on the Metro II was time controlled. The safest way to remove it for overhaul was to fire it off. The "goofing off" firings of this bottl
69 PPGMD : Almost all 152s and 172s that I have been in are apporved intentional spins. But remember unless its for CFI certifcate, you are required to have chut
70 Post contains images TWAL1011 : Hey, Apathoid, will you email me? I've got a question for you... twal1011@cox.net Thanks!
71 Jetguy : PPGMD... Well said. Personally the rule of thumb that I use to gauge the competency of a pilot is very simple. Would I put my family on his/her airpla
72 Metwrench : I had the pleasure of working on the original Metro II. Yeah, I know the jokes, "If you loose one engine, the other will get you to the crash site"! I
73 Jetguy : Back in the mid 70's Scenic Airlines had several of the Metro "Death Tubes". We got to watch them fire the rocket on two or three occassions. As I rem
74 Metwrench : What where the Fed's thinking??????? Well this airplane can't fly with an engine out, gear and flaps down.......... Okay, lets put a rocket on the tai
75 Apathoid : And then there was the rigging procedure for the stall avoidance system that required a mechanic to sit in the right seat with a breakout box on his l
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