Tarantine From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 210 posts, RR: 0 Posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1171 times:
I was wondering where airlines like Airborne Express, Emery Worldwide (and even the USAF for the B-52H) get parts for the JT3D turbofan engine. I know that Pratt & Whitney no longer makes the engines, but do the still make parts for them or are they all salvaged from retired jets? Also, do the JT3D's on the air freight airlines like Airborne meet stage 3 noise regulations?
Tn283 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1099 times:
I don't for sure but I would say that parts are still available either from PW or some other source. There are still many JT3-D's in service both in military and civilian aviation. The USAF Reserve and Guard units still use KC-135E's which have JT3-D's (TF-33) and of course AWACS have them as well. Let's also not forget the C-141 which has the long ducted TF-33's mentioned before. There are also many other aircraft in the military that use engines that are out of production such as the C-5 (GE TF-39), and some F-15C's which still have PW F-100-PW100's.
FLY DC JETS From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 199 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1068 times:
PW still makes parts for these engines. There are about 500 planes flying that still have JT3D (TF-33) powerplants. The demand is still lucrative enough for PW to continue making parts. Engine manufacturers make their money off of spare parts, so as long as the plane is flying, PW will make parts for it.
PW is also trying to sell several governments and airlines on a re-engining program that replaces the JT3D's with JT8D-200s.
Tn283 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1071 times:
I have read about the re-engining program involving the JT8-D. It seems that CFM56 has been more successful at replacing the JT3-D/TF-33. By the way Tarantine, I know you have seen us use the term TF-33. TF-33 is the U.S. military designation for the JT3-D. Please understand that TF-33 and JT3-D are the same engine. Many military jet engines are the same as their commercial counterparts but are given a military designation just like every other item bought by the military. Anyway, back to the subject at hand. It seems to me that the CFM56 is a more popular sale because they are so much quieter and more efficient than JT8-D's. If you see a KC-135R or a re-engined DC-8 which both have CFM56's you will see exactly what I mean. Unless it is totally quiet on the ramp, you are not likely to hear the jets when they take off. And you certainly can't hear them at idle unless you are really close to them. In fact, the KC-135R's that I have been around were so quiet at idle that the only things you really heard were the bleed air and ECS systems. And you still had to be really close to hear that. JT8-D's are quite loud with a really high pitch idle and this can be a turn off to customers who are looking to re-engine older jets.
FLY DC JETS From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 199 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1055 times:
"It seems to me that the CFM56 is a more popular sale because
they are so much quieter and more efficient than JT8-D's. If you see a
KC-135R or a re-engined DC-8 which both have CFM56's you will see exactly what I mean."
PW never bid on the KC-135 contract, nor did they bid on the Super 71 conversion. CFM won by default. PW had a difficult enough time building the JT8D-200 for the influx of MD-80 orders, they had no ability nor the foresight to see this market.
In fact the PW JT3D to JT8D re-engining program didn't officially begin until 1996. So there was no competition between CFM and PW, CFM won as the only bidder. PW hasn't really offered this program to many customers yet, however it is in the running for a USAF contract to re-engine JSTARS aircraft due to ground clearance problems w/ the CFM. Additionally, it is still possible that PW with the JT8D, could win another contract to re-engine some AF reserve and Air National Guard aircraft. All of these proposals combined with the other airlines and governments that could use new engines make it very likely that PW will at least have some customers.
" JT8-D's are quite loud with a really high pitch idle
and this can be a turn off to customers who are looking to re-engine
older jets. "
The JT8D-200 is Stage III compliant without a hushkit, as is the CFM-56. I think you are confusing the classic, straight-8 engines with the newer -200s, which are much, much quieter.
Though the some CFM56 models are quieter than the JT8D, and all are more efficent, it doesn't matter because PW until 1996 chose to stay out of this market. PW's advantage here is price, PW is able to price JT8D-200's at a much lower purchase price than CFM's. For many of the struggling airlines and governments that are looking to re-engine, purchase price is the most important. Though your facts are correct, your speaking points about why the CFM is more popular cannot be applied.