Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Is This Forum Accurate?  
User currently offlineAvt007 From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 2132 posts, RR: 5
Posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 1923 times:

In the site related forum, Thirty Echo was concerned about the accuracy of the answers posted here. I'll throw in my two cents worth. Anyne who is a pilot/student/apprentice should have the intelligence to realize that word of mouth "training" really isn't worth much. People here do try to help, but if you take the posts as gospel, you're in deep trouble. I worked at an airline that that had a culture of "verbal" training where the apprentices asked the AMEs how to do a task, or how something worked. Sounds ok so far, right? But what happened was one guy was doing something wrong, and he taught 2 apprentices, who became engineers, and taught 2 more apprentices....
One day an apprentice actually read the manual in great detail and said, hey, we've been doing this wrong all along. My point is READ THE MANUALS, follow the SOPs , and not the advice of the well meaning...... Any thoughts?

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJetguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 1908 times:

Amen. Well said.

I tried to post the preceding two short sentences, but the program said my reply was too short. I added this paragraph to make it appear that I had more to say.

Jetguy



User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 1906 times:

I've been saying this everytime a student asks a question, but no one listens, they continue to ask questions, and people continue to give bad answers.


09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
User currently offlineSaintsman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 2065 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 1887 times:

You are right in what you said, but not all members are engineers or pilots and they won't have access to the manuals. There is nothing wrong with asking questions but it is up to the individual to decide how accurate that information is. If someone posts incorrect info here they soon get pulled up anyway.

By the way, books make mistakes too.


User currently offlineAvt007 From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 2132 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 1884 times:

No doubt, Saintsman, mistakes are everywhere, and I`ve found a couple in deHav manuals. The post was just a reminder to use your head, and go to the books. Don`t be fooled by someones age, seniority, experience, `cause we all make mistakes!

User currently offlineFlightTest From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 1849 times:

Agreed.

As a mechanic, why would I come here to get information to do a task when I have the best info at work? There is NO substitute for the AMM.


User currently offlineFredT From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 2185 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 1836 times:

Anyone who'd actually take advice from airliners.net and use it when working with aircraft without checking the docs should not have a license in the first place.

/Fred



I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 1802 times:

I find that the vast majority if the information on this forum is at least somewhat incorrect. This is because many of the answers come from "enthusiasts" who's enthusiasm to be involved in the industry overrides the desire to be accurate. Other answers admittedly come from distant memory which can be a bit dulled over time.

After about 4 or 5 posts to threads, there is usually enough information to weed through to come up with a reasonable answer.

I feel alot as to do with credentials. I have asked people what their credentials were on occasion to get a sense of how authoritative their answers are. When they decline its a clear signal to me that they are not experienced professionals.

This forum still has it's value though. It stimulates conversation in aviation in general which is great, and keeps those of us in the industry on our toes!

In short, don't take any of this stuff as gospel.


User currently offlineFlightSimFreak From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 720 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (12 years 3 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1786 times:

Responses to technical questions should be just the page number or article number for the document that has the answer... For example, if someone asked "Who is responsible for, and the final authority as to the safe operation of his aircraft"... The correct answer would be "FAR 91.3..." and nothing more.

User currently offlineJETPILOT From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3130 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (12 years 3 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1784 times:

It's my opinion that you can't get away with posting wrong info on the tech board. There are people in the wings kurking just waiting to prove a post wrong.

With a judge and jury around most of what it posted is quite accurate.

If someone posts something innacurate it's usually worked out in the end.

JET


User currently offlineJetdoctor From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2001, 257 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 3 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1779 times:

To people that think that this forum is advice to help one do his/her aviation job, you are wrong.
Me thinks the forum is merely a guide to help aviation enthusiasts gain knowledge on occurrences that happen on a day to day basis for the regular mechanic/pilot/ramp rat etc,,,,

It is merely to satisfy curious minds, and allows us aviation nuts to communicate with people that share a same interest.

RT



Break ground, and head into the wind. Don't break wind and head into the ground.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (12 years 3 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1765 times:

You know the manual is important but a lot of times it is written by a guy in a office building somewhere who doesn't have a chance to see how the item is actually being used or just seeing summaries of problems that are being encountered.

All airplanes will have traits that just aren't covered but the manufacturers paperwork.

For example, I have never seen any admitting by Daussault in any of there papers that their Falcon aircraft will spit fuel back at you when you disconnect the single point but having help fuel more then a couple I know that it is true.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 3 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1709 times:

L-188,

What you say reveals one of the major problems in aircraft maintenance. The "guy in the office" that writes the manual is intimately aware of just how things are maintained and the reasons behind the procedures. He writes procedures that he expects people to follow but of course there is always room for improvement. (Bear with me...this is relevant to the topic)

In the field, the service guys often make it up as they go along instead of reading the procedure. The majority of techs I've encountered try to fix things on their own using their "common sense" before referring to the manual and when they come across an area that may require improvement, they simply do their own thing and don't bother informing the people responsible for updating the manual. And then you wonder why the "guy in the office" may not be aware of some obscure in-service anomaly??

One real life example I can offer has to do with de-ice boots. For those of you that don’t know, every airframe component (even the rubber ones) must be electrically bonded to one another. This means that they must all conduct electricity and be electrically interconnected. Many airplanes that use rubber de-ice boots achieve this by using “conductive” rubber that has been manufactured with an additive that conducts electricity. When the de-ice boots are installed, a thin strip of black conductive cement is painted at the edge of the boot, overlapping the boot and a bare metal strip just behind it. Many older de-ice boots that are found on aircraft like the HS-748 are made with non-conductive rubber. They must be painted entirely with conductive cement on installation.

I have seen many many instances of de-ice boots being installed that are not bonded to the airframe. Some AMTs decide to use non-conducting edge sealer like PRC (a common catch-all name for a series of sealants often used in aerospace applications) Others don’t bother painting the surface of non-conducting boots. The results are premature wear of the boots due to electrical arcing and surface deterioration and excessive radio noise when flying through precipitation.

These procedures are bred from the “common sense” that most AMTs think they are born with. Even when they read the procedures in the AMM they discount them as silly or incorrect without investigating the reasons behind them.

AMTs (or whatever you call them in your part of the world) are responsible for conformity. That means they make the airplane match the type design. No more, no less. If you stray from the maintenance manual procedures, your airplane no longer conforms and your signature is useless. If the procedures have errors, it is the AMT’s duty to have them addressed and corrected either by contacting the manufacturer or the responsible airworthiness authorities. Does this happen in the real world. Not often.

Here-in lies the relevance to this thread (finally!) A lot of the misinformation comes from this “common sense" approach. I’m guilty of this on occasion as well, but I try to temper this type of information by using terms such as “I think” or “I’m not completely familiar with the system” etc. If you’re not sure of something , state it and try not to pass on information that is contrary to the AMM (or other references) unless you are prepared to back it up.


User currently offlineFredT From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 2185 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (12 years 3 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1699 times:

I'd like to second something Airplay said which I think is very important to anyone giving answers in any forum:

If there is any doubt regarding the information you're giving out, show it! "I think", "if I remember correctly", "as far as I know". These phrases should probably see more use. I try to use them whenever applicable although I'm sure I still sin quite a lot in this respect.

Good one, Airplay. Thanks for bringing that up.

Cheers,
Fred



I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
User currently offlineNKP S2 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1714 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (12 years 3 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1699 times:

Jetdoctor: You hit the nail on the head. -- I too view the "reason d'etre" of this forum as a way of satisfying general curiosity of the "gee, I always wondered how..." variety, and of course insiders comparing general notes and what have you. Never once occured to me it would be some technical library or research "think tank". I'm surprised this is even an issue.

Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Is This Forum Accurate?
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
What Airplane Is This? posted Fri Mar 9 2007 21:26:24 by A346Dude
What Is This Around The Aircraft? posted Thu Feb 15 2007 02:44:25 by LoveASE
Quality Controls Of Fuel..how Is This Done? posted Sun Jan 21 2007 03:38:41 by Scalebuilder
What Exactly Is This On The Front Of The A/C? posted Sat Jan 20 2007 12:06:16 by RootsAir
What Aircraft Is This? posted Wed Jan 10 2007 17:17:56 by AirKas1
What Is This In The Delta MD-11 Cockpit? posted Mon Oct 30 2006 10:11:58 by MD11Fanatic
What Is This Lump On The 737? posted Sun Oct 1 2006 13:18:37 by Monteycarlos
Is This A Combi 744? posted Wed Aug 23 2006 15:26:18 by Baw2198
B737 QC Ops - Is This Right. posted Sun Aug 20 2006 09:44:23 by HAWK21M
Is This A Problem (SXM Landing Situation) posted Thu Jul 20 2006 23:06:33 by SuseJ772

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format