Shaun3000 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 445 posts, RR: 0 Posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2430 times:
What are your experiences with your first training flight? Specifically, did any of you taxi, takeoff, or land on your own on your VERY FIRST training flight?
I ask as I started my PPL training, today. I've had no experience except computer flight simulators. My instructor had me taxi, takeoff and, after I jokingly asked, land the airplane. ALl went flawlessly. Taxiing was ungainly, but fine once I got the hang of the toe brakes. Take off was a breeze, with my first two maneuvers as a pilot being rotation and a climbing, left turn on departure.
Finally, on approach I was joking with the instructor and asked if he wanted me to land it for him. He said I could do it if I wanted to, which I did, with imput from him on power settings and flap configurations... I stuck the landing, on the centerline, between the numbers and IFR aiming point... According the my instructor, he's never had anyone do as well as that on their first landing, let alone their first FLIGHT. He was quite impressed, to say the least.
This was at Addison Airport (KADS) in Dallas, by the way.
How unusual is this? I wasn't even expecting to taxi or take off, today, let alone LAND the plane!
XFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4103 posts, RR: 38 Reply 1, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2390 times:
As an instructor... I always let the student taxi and takeoff the airplane. There has been only one person who didnt want to takeoff the airplane their first time. Also, i generally dont let them do the first approach/landing unless they ask.... there have also been occasions where someone catches on so fast or has flown before and i'll let them do the first landing- of course while im riding the controls and talking them through it, with slight control help to guide the airplane into the right position.
Congrats on your first flight, I'm glad it went so well. My first flight was similar to the ones that i give now... taxi and takeoff the airplane with instructor demonstrating most of the checks.. fly around for a little while, then have me set up for the approach, and when the final descent begins the instructor took over. It was a pretty hefty x-wind on my first flight i remember.. as she was demonstrating flying in with the crab and correcting with wing dip and rudder before touchdown. Now i get to do that. It's awesome being able to give someone an experience that they never forget.
PPGMD From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2453 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2349 times:
Its very normal around here for the CFI to allow the new student to land it, if they feel confident enough on their first flight. But its NOT in any way a hands off landing the CFI will be applying corrective and holding the yoke within limits during the whole time.
You will find that you subsequent landings will get worse (the CFI will put less corrections in) but don't worry it's your normal learning experience. I remember for my glider first two landings went great. The third one was nearly hands off from the CFIG, my worst/exciting(relatively) landing ever, some how I was able to land it safely.
ThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1638 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2343 times:
My first lesson was in a Luscombe 8-E taildragger; there was no way that the instructor was going to let anyone take off or land on the first flight. He did have me shadow him on the stick (not rudder) but I made no control inputs. Tricycle gear trainers are much more forgiving and be thankful that they have eliminated heel brakes.
NormalSpeed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2342 times:
I hate to be a kill-joy. But regardless of how soon you learn landings, or even solo for that matter, you've still got to meet all the requirements for the Private Certificate. Some people struggle with landings. You'll probably struggle with something else. All I'm saying is this: Don't get cocky. You've still got a lot to do.
Shaun3000 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 445 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2316 times:
I'm not getting cocky. I know I still need all my hours and I still have lots of other stuff to do. I just found it unusual that he let me land it (and it was a pretty flawless one, at that! but I just like to brag. ) and had his hands off the yoke until we flared.
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5641 posts, RR: 15 Reply 8, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2308 times:
Usually (as PPGMD has stated), your first few landings will be good, and if youve only been flying on commercial flights, taking those as ques, then you are doing pretty good. However, landing is a skill, and one that is learned over time. You will have many a piss-poor (yet great in a pilots opinion ) landings to come, and to learn from. Your instructor will teach you the proper way to land the type of plane you are flying, etc.
Taking off is fun, and gives most new pilots the initial rush of what they are going into. In a light aircraft (especially the 152), you do not rotate. Light planes only need a slight amount of nose up, once Vr is reached, since the plane will want to climb itself out. From there on, the plane will increase in speed, and you will have to compensate by climbing. The only plane that I have been in that can give the effect of rotating a large aircraft, is being the only person in a 160HP 172, on a cool day, at sea level. You will climb like a bat out of hell in the configuration, getting 800-900 FPM.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
Ralgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6 Reply 9, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2304 times:
It's still rotation, just not as pronounced, and whoever said fly a taildragger, I really hope you're joking, I get sick and tired of people saying that you can't fly until you can fly a taildragger. It's complete BS.
Shaun3000 did well on his first flight, more importantly, he had fun and will be going back for another lesson. Don't say anything like "well that was good, but you're gonna suck in the future," or, "that's all well and good but you know you're not really flying 'cause it's a tricycle gear plane." His instructor should have made the difficulty and expected bumps in training known already, and is also the one to make the judgement call on attitude. It's not our place to be bringing someone down who we don't even know.
EssentialPowr From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1820 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2298 times:
"...a 160HP 172, on a cool day, at sea level. You will climb like a bat out of hell in the configuration, getting 800-900 FPM."
It is such a rush to make the next step in the performance ladder...at some point that will mean having to increase to 3,000 fpm or more to keep from exceeding 250 kts. And then, it will be equally rewarding to return to your roots and fly that 172.
NormalSpeed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2276 times:
...(and it was a pretty flawless one, at that! but I just like to brag. ) and had his hands off the yoke until we flared.
Granted tone of voice doesn't transmit over the internet, but that sure reads like cockiness to me. And if I'm wrong, and I hope I am, then all I'm saying is make sure that you don't become cocky. That will shoot all kinds of holes in your progress. Personally, I've noticed that when I think I'm aeronautically "all that," then I don't progress at nearly the rate that I do when I work to keep myself humble. Plus, I don't get frustrated when I encounter the inevitable hardships associated with learning to fly airplanes; I've acknowledged that I don't know everything, and that I might have to work to grasp certain concepts or master certain skills.
Skyguy11 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2257 times:
Congrats on your sucessful flight however, I suggest that you go back and reread your own posts objectively. They REALLY come across as cocky, and to me, your origional question of 'how unusual is this' is really just 'look at how great is this!'. I hope you have a great flight career but remember, a little humility can go a long way.
MagicMan_841 From Canada, joined Jan 2002, 182 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2253 times:
I remember my first training flight...not the intro, but the actual training. I got to taxi, and take-off with help of the CFI, and the CFI landed it. Don't expect to grease a landing on your first flight
ThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1638 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2246 times:
I'm not at all worried about anybody's cockiness on the first lesson. All it takes is one episode of trying to taxi with the tail tie-down still attached or with a mainwheel chock still in place and cockiness seems to take care of itself. You might even work up to a pitot tube cover waving at you from the left wing at 500AGL.
AA_Cam From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2220 times:
I started my flight training at Hicks airport in Texas. (I mean literally my first 1/2 hour of flight). There my instructor calmly talked me through taxi, takeoff, and landing. It was great. Looking back now (nearly three years later) I don't think, as an instructor, I could ever have the patience or calm to do such a thing to a similar student as myself!!
Again, let me remind you that it wasn't my skills that shined that day, but those of my excellent instructor. (I didn't even know the first thing about the circuit! haha) After that I came home to Welland, Ontario and continued my flight training...
Jcxp15 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 997 posts, RR: 5 Reply 16, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2220 times:
I know this instructor who takes the "cocky" students on a flight, and treats them like babies after takeoff, making them even more confident. Then, he'll head to a smaller airport to either to land or for a touch and go, and purposely ask the tower for the runway with the heaviest crosswind, and almost give the student total control of the a/c. Once the student figures out that they can't line the a/c up with the runway, and maintain the proper altitude and speed without instructor help, the instructor will take control of the plane, and perform the landing by himself. Then he'll try to scare the student into thinking that he almost got in trouble for the poor quality of the attempted landing and all etc... Usually the student believe everything, and the next flight, everything is cool.
XFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4103 posts, RR: 38 Reply 17, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2205 times:
Thats kind of an odd technique for dealing with a cocky student... my general practice is to load them up with as much as they can take and then slightly overload them to where they begin to lose focus and cant fly the airplane anymore. This helps them become better pilots quicker, as not only do the learn to respect the situation, but they soon are able to do the additional tasks, upon which time i toss on more. If they start getting discouraged, ill back off and let them have a little fun.... or ill take the airplane for a few minutes for a "performance demonstration"... tee hee. Never ceases to get them back in the game. Instructing is alot of fun, theres nothing like the feeling of seeing someone nail a manuever or go from bare nothing in knowing about flying to have their pilots lisence. Just i cant wait until im in the airlines.
XFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4103 posts, RR: 38 Reply 20, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2200 times:
The place where i fly for requires a two pilot operation on the King Air 200.... There is one captain and I am one of 3 instructors that right seat on it.. we alternate. Didnt want to write out co-pilot on the profile so i just tossed in FO. I'm not captain qualified as i dont have enough hours...and i perform all the normal duties of a first officer. Thus... King Air 200 FO. Hows that cockiness working out for you?
EssentialPowr From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1820 posts, RR: 2 Reply 21, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2198 times:
B/c you're talking about an insurance requirement, son.
If State Farm Insurance Company wants company XYZ to have a loadmaster, engineer and "FO" for a 5,000 lb C206, and the operator wants that policy...then those positions must mean something to the underwriter.
As far as the FAA is concerned, and other pilots in general, particularly 600 hr CFIs talking about cockiness, the King Air 200 is a single pilot a/c, and therefore,
There is no such thing as King Air -200 FO. Looks "cool" on a web page, but that's about it.
XFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4103 posts, RR: 38 Reply 22, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2188 times:
Whatever, I am required on there and am trained and it is my favorite airplane my company has for me to fly. 90% of the King Airs that I see are operated under 2 pilot requirements...most other pilots ive talked to would have died for multi-turbine time while they were paying their dues as a CFI. Either way thats 830 hour CFI, to you . I fly my butt off everyday as well as going to school full time and have worked hard to get where I am. I felt that King Air Pilot or whatever would have given the impression taht i was captain... which i am not. Ironically in an effort to not try to boost my image to a level that i am not, someone has come to believe i was showing cockiness through it. Sheesh.
EssentialPowr From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1820 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2183 times:
From the College and Flight Training Expenses topic:
12. Don't talk about "we" in a King Air (resume or log book). It's a single pilot a/c, or it's dual rec'd. 500 hrs dual rec'd in a King Air will get your resume filed in the "Sandbag" category.
13. And remember-if you are confident, competent, and humble, your time will come.
Jetguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2183 times:
For what it's worth, I took Shaun's post as simply reflective of his youth and his pride of achievement. Haven't we all been there at one time or another? As a CFI, I have given many students their first ride and I always allowed them to taxi, takeoff, fly, and (at the very least) follow me through on the landing. It sound like he had an exceptional and very rewarding flight. But as those of you who have preceded him well know, there will be plenty of "humbling" moments ahead for him. Well done Shaun, keep us posted on your progress.
25 EssentialPowr: I agree totally, Jetguy, ref my first post in this topic. But I had to step in toward the latter stages. cheers-
26 Shaun3000: NormalSpeed and others, I apologize if some of my posts come across as cocky. I assure you, I am far from that. As I said, I am still amazed I was all
27 NormalSpeed: NormalSpeed and others, I apologize if some of my posts come across as cocky. Naw... Don't worry about it. The truth is that I wish that I could have
28 PPGMD: Power: The King Air in 90% of cases is a single pilot aircraft. A few part 135 companies (and even less Part 91) choose not to apply for the single pi
29 EssentialPowr: Thanks; I'm aware of Part 135 ops; same thing applies to a Barron, Seneca, 206, whatever. If it was Part 135, then the follow on question for an inter
30 EssentialPowr: A final comment- To say that background and work history checks have changed significantly for the airline industry is a tremendous understatement. Wh
31 EssentialPowr: Final, Final comment. If you are FAA required, dual pilot Part 91, then your resume better read "FAA Airways/Approach Inspector" or "US Customs Servic