Leezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4041 posts, RR: 54 Reply 6, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2450 times:
A few years ago at LHR, a pax blew the chute on an MH 744 when he saw flames coming out of the engine on startup and about 10 other pax followed him down. It happend so quickly, the cabin crew were doing the demo, they didn't get chance to stop them.
When the pax landed on the ramp, (they had gone out of Door 4, which brought them right down behind the engines which were running) the headset guy doing startup $h!t himself as obviously he wasn't expecting it....he had to make them lay down on the floor whilst the engines were shut down....
Flight got cancelled overnight whilst a new chute was located.....
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
If memory serves, BA's 747s are RB211-equipped, and those same engines on the L1011s are well-known as smokers (and occasionally flamers) on start-up.
I once saw a Delta L1011 pushback at IAH, and during start-up of the number two engine, it smoked a little bit at first, but then a "waterfall of flaming fuel" came out of the tailpipe, burning up before it could hit the ramp, and then it all went back over to the usual smoke. I was up in the gate area at the time (catering supervisor for Dobbs House) and some of the comments from those who'd just seen relatives off on that very flight were quite enlightening.
Broke From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 1322 posts, RR: 3 Reply 8, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2300 times:
What you are seeing is called torching. For some reason, fuel is in the turbine and exhaust (leaking fuel shut-off valve, residual fuel from the previous run, ignition not coming on as quickly as the fuel, fuel control fuel scheduling) and when ignition occurs, this fuel burns off in a flash or torch. Generally, this is not a technical problem, but if someone who does not understand what is happening sees this, all hell can break loose. Planes have been evacuated, fire trucks called out, etc. The Keystone Kops would be envious of the melee that results. If the torching is excessive (it won't stop), the normal procedure is to turn off fuel and ignition and continue to turn the engine with the starter (this is called motoring the engine); this will normally cut off the fuel and ignition source and allow whatever residual fuel is remaining to burn off or blow out of the exhaust. If a fuel shut-off valve is leaking, motoring won't fix the problem as more fuel is feeding the fire. Then you have to shut down and call the fire folks. Unfortunately, in my experience, most of these peole do not know how to fight a tail pipe fire and the result is an unnecessary engine change due to fire firing foam being shot everywhere!! Groan!!
HHHramp From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 89 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2237 times:
I was watching NW back a 320 out of the gate the other night when the blue ring of fire could be seen in the engine at start-up. It was only momentary and very contained (the Pax would not have seen it.) After a minute or so, the other engine repeated the show.
BTW... Our training on the 727 specifically covers Pax issues with APU torching
ie: freaking out.
Broke From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 1322 posts, RR: 3 Reply 11, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2206 times:
Concerning 727 APU torching. Since the APU exhaust comes out of the upper surface of the wing on the right side, a torch will definitely get any passenger's attention if they are seated over the wing. Usually, this is most likely to occur when the airplane is taxiing into a gate at the end of leg and the APU is started. The APU installation was an after thought on the 727 and is not intended for inflight operation. It is mounted between the main landing gear wheel wells with it's intake in one wheel well (left I think) and it exhausts out at the right wing just outboard of the fuselage. Originally there was a door that was open during running and closed when the APU was shut down. The door became a maintenance headache and so most airplanes just have a grill in the upper wing skin at the APU exhaust.
Vc10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1395 posts, RR: 16 Reply 12, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2188 times:
On the Concorde, during start up an Electrically driven start fuel pump is used, which delivers fuel regardless of engine RPM, and should Ignition be introduce in any way late the subsequent light up produces a huge flame out of the exhaust. I believe it looks even better if the start up is at night.
Srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 17266 posts, RR: 51 Reply 13, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2171 times:
It's a great way to frighten passengers sitting in the terminal, and startle the rampers as well. I've seen the engines on a DC-9 do it a few times, and have even seen it happen on the 717's BR-715 engines as well.
Wilcharl From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1158 posts, RR: 3 Reply 14, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2160 times:
another thing to scare pax (i remember at night it would really do it )was the air start cart when I was with FL we would hook it up on the 737 and position it in front of the #2 engine in view of the passengers, it was an old MA1A and it woudl smoke and then torch then finally calm down...
B777av8r From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 31 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2000 times:
Actually, we like to 'wetstart' then get a tailpipe fire. The reason is quite simple. We do get tired of the same old fish, chicken and steak on our flights. Many of us have decided that we want a change to the diet and thus have taken to bringing weiners and marshmallows with us on our flights. It kind of gives us the comraderie atmosphere...especially on a night time, long haul flight. We talk about how good the flying was back in the old days and how great it is to be able to share the experiences around a nice warm Pratt, Rolls, GE or Kuznetzov tailpipe. We've found it easier to roast the ole weinies and maollows on the ground before flight. Various types of weiner sticks have been tried for use in the air, so as not to disrupt the flight, but technology hasn't come up with anything that will secure the delicacies at 250Kts.:D