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Flames During Engine Startup?  
User currently offlineHkniceguy From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2001, 130 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2969 times:

Flames during engines startup?? Is this always happen? Or only happen during first/final run??


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18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLuchtzak From Belgium, joined Dec 2001, 468 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2956 times:

@ Hknicequy

It happens sometimes when the a/c has been parked for a long time (8 hours e.g.) it is just a little bit of jet-fuel that didn't combust right-a-way. Giving flames in the engine!!

No bigga deal!

Kind regards
Luchtzak


User currently offlineHkniceguy From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2001, 130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2941 times:

Thanks Luchtzak! Will this also happen on newer engines? Like GE90, PW4000 and Trent?

User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3895 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2941 times:

When you think about the basic operating principles of a jet engines... there is always a flame going on inside the engine. Suck, squeeze, bang, blow... it's not a big deal.



AZJ


User currently offlineRapo From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 395 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2876 times:

I think the point is that one rarely sees flames OUTSIDE the typical jet engine (afterburners notwithstanding).

rapo


User currently offlineUal777contrail From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2830 times:

I have seen 10Feet of flames coming out of a DC-10 engine and it something to see.but like the other post stated the fuel sits overnight and then you see the plane have a "hotstart".






ual 777 contrail


User currently offlineLeezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4041 posts, RR: 53
Reply 6, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2772 times:

A few years ago at LHR, a pax blew the chute on an MH 744 when he saw flames coming out of the engine on startup and about 10 other pax followed him down. It happend so quickly, the cabin crew were doing the demo, they didn't get chance to stop them.

When the pax landed on the ramp, (they had gone out of Door 4, which brought them right down behind the engines which were running) the headset guy doing startup $h!t himself as obviously he wasn't expecting it....he had to make them lay down on the floor whilst the engines were shut down....

Flight got cancelled overnight whilst a new chute was located.....



"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (12 years 2 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2723 times:


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If memory serves, BA's 747s are RB211-equipped, and those same engines on the L1011s are well-known as smokers (and occasionally flamers) on start-up.

I once saw a Delta L1011 pushback at IAH, and during start-up of the number two engine, it smoked a little bit at first, but then a "waterfall of flaming fuel" came out of the tailpipe, burning up before it could hit the ramp, and then it all went back over to the usual smoke. I was up in the gate area at the time (catering supervisor for Dobbs House) and some of the comments from those who'd just seen relatives off on that very flight were quite enlightening.



User currently offlineBroke From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 1322 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2622 times:

What you are seeing is called torching. For some reason, fuel is in the turbine and exhaust (leaking fuel shut-off valve, residual fuel from the previous run, ignition not coming on as quickly as the fuel, fuel control fuel scheduling) and when ignition occurs, this fuel burns off in a flash or torch. Generally, this is not a technical problem, but if someone who does not understand what is happening sees this, all hell can break loose. Planes have been evacuated, fire trucks called out, etc. The Keystone Kops would be envious of the melee that results. If the torching is excessive (it won't stop), the normal procedure is to turn off fuel and ignition and continue to turn the engine with the starter (this is called motoring the engine); this will normally cut off the fuel and ignition source and allow whatever residual fuel is remaining to burn off or blow out of the exhaust. If a fuel shut-off valve is leaking, motoring won't fix the problem as more fuel is feeding the fire. Then you have to shut down and call the fire folks. Unfortunately, in my experience, most of these peole do not know how to fight a tail pipe fire and the result is an unnecessary engine change due to fire firing foam being shot everywhere!! Groan!!

User currently offlineWilcharl From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1166 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2584 times:

reminds me of a 727 apu start up and the pax freaking out....

User currently offlineHHHramp From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2559 times:




I was watching NW back a 320 out of the gate the other night when the blue ring of fire could be seen in the engine at start-up. It was only momentary and very contained (the Pax would not have seen it.) After a minute or so, the other engine repeated the show.

BTW... Our training on the 727 specifically covers Pax issues with APU torching
ie: freaking out.

S


User currently offlineBroke From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 1322 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2528 times:

Concerning 727 APU torching. Since the APU exhaust comes out of the upper surface of the wing on the right side, a torch will definitely get any passenger's attention if they are seated over the wing. Usually, this is most likely to occur when the airplane is taxiing into a gate at the end of leg and the APU is started. The APU installation was an after thought on the 727 and is not intended for inflight operation. It is mounted between the main landing gear wheel wells with it's intake in one wheel well (left I think) and it exhausts out at the right wing just outboard of the fuselage. Originally there was a door that was open during running and closed when the APU was shut down. The door became a maintenance headache and so most airplanes just have a grill in the upper wing skin at the APU exhaust.

User currently offlineVc10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 12, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2510 times:

On the Concorde, during start up an Electrically driven start fuel pump is used, which delivers fuel regardless of engine RPM, and should Ignition be introduce in any way late the subsequent light up produces a huge flame out of the exhaust. I believe it looks even better if the start up is at night.

regards little vc10


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2493 times:

It's a great way to frighten passengers sitting in the terminal, and startle the rampers as well. I've seen the engines on a DC-9 do it a few times, and have even seen it happen on the 717's BR-715 engines as well.

User currently offlineWilcharl From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1166 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2482 times:

another thing to scare pax (i remember at night it would really do it )was the air start cart when I was with FL we would hook it up on the 737 and position it in front of the #2 engine in view of the passengers, it was an old MA1A and it woudl smoke and then torch then finally calm down...




User currently offlineAJ From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 2386 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2466 times:

Try this one:

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User currently offlineDripstick From Canada, joined Dec 2001, 2364 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (12 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2457 times:

Another nice pic...


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What's another word for thesaurus?
User currently offlineB777av8r From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 31 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (12 years 2 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2322 times:

Actually, we like to 'wetstart' then get a tailpipe fire. The reason is quite simple. We do get tired of the same old fish, chicken and steak on our flights. Many of us have decided that we want a change to the diet and thus have taken to bringing weiners and marshmallows with us on our flights. It kind of gives us the comraderie atmosphere...especially on a night time, long haul flight. We talk about how good the flying was back in the old days and how great it is to be able to share the experiences around a nice warm Pratt, Rolls, GE or Kuznetzov tailpipe. We've found it easier to roast the ole weinies and maollows on the ground before flight. Various types of weiner sticks have been tried for use in the air, so as not to disrupt the flight, but technology hasn't come up with anything that will secure the delicacies at 250Kts.:D



User currently offlineWilcharl From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1166 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (12 years 2 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2275 times:

thats as bad as me roasting marshmellows on the MA-1A

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