DesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7595 posts, RR: 22 Posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1853 times:
Why did the FAA put a speed limit in below 10000'. And is this more or less universal throughout the world?
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
Buff From Australia, joined Mar 2007, 0 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1717 times:
1. Birds (feathered);
2. Birds (light with ailerons, usually VFR);
3. Yes,
although the restriction can be waived by ATC in most places outside North America. In Canada, one can climb at speeds > 250 KIAS below 10,000 if cleared above 10,000. Waiver does not apply in Canada on descent.
ExPratt From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 311 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1655 times:
The FAA initiated the 250 knots or less below 10,000 feet rule as a result of the United DC-8/TWA Constellation midair collision over Staten Island, New York in the early 60s. The slower speeds facilitate ATC in directing the traffic and slow down the pace for the flight crews in a high workload part of the flight. It can be waived in the event of an emergency. And I believe the FAA is conducting an operational test at IAH waiving the speed restriction.
In Canada there is no requirement any longer to have a cleared altitude above 10,000' before you can exceed 250kts(unless restricted by Sid ie. YVR, YYZ).
EWR757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 360 posts, RR: 9 Reply 7, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1566 times:
I got to disagree with this. If memory of reading of the accident serves me correct, both aircraft were holding and the UAL violated protected airspace due to excessive speed. This accident instituted standarized holding speeds.
Correct about IAH, only for departures, with approval from IAH departure control. We do it all the time at CO.
DesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7595 posts, RR: 22 Reply 8, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1550 times:
Thanks guys for the answers... that is what I thought.
How do the new speed controls work at Houston?
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
Iainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1541 times:
It is my understanding that Germany is quite strict (like the US is) on this rule. I heard Germany is this way for Birds (light with ailerons, usually VFR).
Iain
AAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3342 posts, RR: 51 Reply 10, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1541 times:
>Don't think I'll take advantage of it though for reasons 1 & 2 in my original post!
Me neither. I always consider myself the second "S" in K.I.S.S.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
Fr8tdog From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 120 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1536 times:
There are a number of reasons for the 250 speed limit under 10000' and 200 kts within class D, under the umbrella and VFR corridors of class B. One is the VFR rules .... 3sm vis, 500' below 1000' above 2000' lateral from the clouds. When below 10000' 250 kts is a little over 4nm/min. typical reaction time is around 30 sec. (1)identifying a potential hazard or not, (2)the reaction of where to go to avoid the hazard and moving the controls in that direction, (3) the reaction time of the airplane. 30 sec thats 2nm if you see the object right away.
Above 10000' msl the vis requirements go up to 5sm 1000' above the clouds and 1000' below the clouds 1sm lateral allowing more time for the additional speed to avoid other aircraft.
Some people are going to say BUT YOU ARE ON A IFR FLIGHT PLAN and under radar control....... that is true, however in VFR cond. it is the PILOTS responsability to see and avoid other aircraft regardless what rules you are operating under. While operating in VFR conditions, ATC gives advisary reports on traffic unless imminent contact will occur. All of this is under 18000' MSL of course. above 18000' it is Class A airspace. meaning positive control on all aircraft.
N1641 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (11 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1526 times:
at this site http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/regserv/carac/CARS/cars/602e.htm#602_32 number 2 is 2) No person shall operate an aircraft below 3,000 feet AGL within 10 nautical miles of a controlled airport at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots unless authorized to do so in an air traffic control clearance.
C172sb From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1472 times:
It has nothing to do with birds. Even if you are flying a cessna 172 at 110 knots, it is almost impossible to avoid a bird. At 250 knots in a 737 it would be entirely impossible to avoid a bird. If you have flown any kind of aircraft and have seen birds in the windshield, you know just how difficult it is to avoid them. Those little birds are not such a problem, they get chopped up by the prop. You have to be careful about geese and birds of prey, they did tend to go through the windshield.
Buff From Australia, joined Mar 2007, 0 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1471 times:
It's not a question of avoiding birds, but avoiding the damage they do. Let the physicists explain the effect of increased velocity and force of impact!
You can fly IFR or VFR in VMC.
You can only fly IFR in IMC.
So what you may have been saying is that it is the pilots responsibility under VMC conditions (even with an IFR flightplan) to see and avoid other aircraft.
Buff From Australia, joined Mar 2007, 0 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1444 times:
No actually, I meant VFR, as in an aircraft that is not necessarily in contact with ATC or even with a transponder. So while in VMC, VFR traffic is a potential hazard to aircraft under IFR. Pilots flying IFR tend to forget to look outside in busy terminal environments, especially when it's VMC. (The only one really, REALLY close near miss I've had was in complete and total IMC, by the way, and that was a visual avoidance manoeuvre.) Yes, you're right about "responsibility" in VMC conditions.
Fr8tdog From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 120 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1419 times:
PanMan,
Yes I concur with the different meanings, However its the rules that define what and how we fly. for an example: In class G airspace a VFR pilot can file a VFR flight plan and Fly under VMC in 1sm of visability. Is that safe? good question ... Each flight is unique in its own enviroment.
I have been a pilot for 11yrs and worked as a flight Instructor (ratings which I still hold current), Freight (day, night, VMC and IMC) and currently an airline pilot.
The meanings are the same between IMC and IFR or VMC or VFR it depends on what level that you are flying at, is where they get used.... student pilots thru instrument and commercial pilots generally use the term IFR or VFR. While the Airlines use VMC or IMC.
I am sorry if I had confused any readers on the subject.
Blue skys and tailwinds to all Fr8tdog
Buff From Australia, joined Mar 2007, 0 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1412 times:
Ooops. I did it again. Sorry for butting in - I didn't see the address to Fr8tdog. I "assumed" that 'cuz paNMan's post followed mine, it was mine he was commenting upon.
My apologies - hope I didn't steal anybody's thunder!
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7595 posts, 
From Australia, joined Mar 2007, 0 posts, 
From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2000, 1019 posts, 
From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 176 posts, 
From Belgium, joined Mar 2000, 143 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Aug 1999, 786 posts, 
Sponsor Message: 
Printer friendly format
