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Delta MD11 Why No PIPs?  
User currently offlineMhsieh From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 332 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1820 times:

Noticed that Delta's MD11 does not have the drooping ailerons with takeoff flap extension which is part of the PIPs offerd by Douglas (free of charge??)
Why didn't Delta's MD-11s get retrofitted??

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDL_Mech From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1924 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1682 times:

DLs' MD-11's do have the PIP.....also including Phase III PW4460's, new flap trailing edge wedges and vertically mounted windshield wipers......


This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
User currently offlineMhsieh From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1644 times:

What about droop ailerons on take-off? I didn't see that on DL's MD11 ....

User currently offlineDL_Mech From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1924 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1616 times:

Hey Mhsieh.....I did a little research on this and found what was basically said by MD11Nut and Boomer on your last post about this ( http://www.airliners.net/discussions/tech_ops/read.main/2126/6/ ).

The drooped ailerons (inboard and outboard) are part of an A1 package to increase MTOW to 630k. They droop only when flaps are set to a takeoff setting, and the nose gear air/ground switch is made. Normal droop is 0 deg. inboard / 4 deg. outboard with the flaps up (I believe the 4 deg. outboard was part of the PIP). When the nose is compressed and flaps are set to takeoff, flaps droop 11.5 deg. inboard and 15 deg. outboard.

Deltas' MD-11's are rated at 625k, and do not have the A1 package (they do have the 4 deg. outboard droop). From my understanding, not all MD-11's can get the A1 mod, so DL probably keeps them all the same for commonality purposes. Ships 813-815 are quite a bit different from the rest (look at the flap canoe fairings), so they are probably eligible.

BTW- all of the World MD-11's that we work on (except N279WA) have the A-1 mod.



This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
User currently offlineMhsieh From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1587 times:

Thanks a lot DL Mech for your reply...
BTW, what's Delta's plan with the MD-11 now they've got the 777...seems to me that MD-11 is replaceable with 777. Is DL gonna get more 777??


User currently offlineDL_Mech From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1924 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1559 times:

From what I hear, the leased MD-11's (7?) have a 30 year lease (starting in 1992) with very unfavorable penalties breaking that lease. Boeing has approached DL about replacing them with 777's, but no deal was struck without DL losing money.......So, I don't think the MD's are going anywhere (at least some of them)...............


This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
User currently offlineMhsieh From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1516 times:

How's the MD-11 from maintenance perspective? Are they more diificult and troublesome compared to other Boeing or the MD80/90??

User currently offlinePapatango From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1494 times:


Why in the world would anyone lease an airplane for 30 years? I can not believe Delta is that DUMB!


User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1485 times:

DL_Mech....

According to DAL's 2001 annual report the leased MD-11s depart in 2004. You are however correct that the penalties for early termination of the lease were such that it would be ridiculously stupid to do so.

By the end of 2005 Delta should be rid of all MD-11s.



It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineDL_Mech From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1924 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1473 times:

Mhsieh....I'm not the MD-11 Cheerleader that FDXMech is, so I'll leave it at that. I'm more of an L-1011 fan......

DeltaSFO.....Check the lease termination dates on the Tech/Ops section (Aircraft Fleet Listing) of the DeltaNet.....806 and 811 terminate in 2017.



This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1457 times:

Wow, DL_Mech.... I've spent all kinds of time on that Aircraft Info section and never really paid attention to the lease termination dates. There must be some kind of early out clause because I don't think that a) airlines, especially the more financially healthy ones such as Delta, commit outright to leases that long and b) they probably wouldn't mention that in their annual report if it weren't true.


It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineDL_Mech From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1924 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1421 times:

I don't know if it's true or not, but the 25 year lease was part of the deal that DL made with MDC giving them $6 million each for their DC-9-32's. I guess it's up to Boeing to break the lease and sell more 777's. I'm sure UPS wants those MD-11's for their freighter operation.


This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
User currently offlineSeagull From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 340 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1381 times:

The deflected aileron package is not part of the 630,500 pound takeoff package. The deflected ailerons do allow higher takeoff weights when the takeoff is performance (not structurally) limited, but they have been plagued with reliability problems. FedEx is currently deactivating the deflected ailerons as the problems have outweighed their advantages.

The MD-11 has been, overall, reliable for FedEx.


User currently offlineFDXmech From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3251 posts, RR: 35
Reply 13, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1308 times:

Seagull: FedEx is currently deactivating the deflected ailerons as the problems have outweighed their advantages.

When did this come about? Due to my shift and the EWR's MD11 schedule, I hardly see and rarely work the MD11 anymore. But nonetheless this is news to me.



You're only as good as your last departure.
User currently offlineSeagull From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 340 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1243 times:

Decision was reached about 2 months ago, be complete by 15AUG last I heard.

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