Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Fuel Question  
User currently offlineDash8King From Canada, joined Nov 2001, 2742 posts, RR: 11
Posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1704 times:

What type of fuel does say a cessna 150 or 172 use? I did a search and could not find a topic. Also what do they do to fuel to make it Jet fuel? I read that turbo props use Jet fuel is this correct?

Just trying to understand fuel and sorry for so many questions.

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePW4084 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1675 times:

General Aviation aircraft with reciprocating engines like the C-172 or C-150 burn Aviation Gasoline. The gasoline is leaded, 100LL is the standard in the US. So that's an octane rating of 100 and the LL stands for 'low lead'. There are other variants and older/lower compression engines are certified for lower octane ratings, with the proper approval and paperwork you can burn automobile gasoline in your airplane.

Jet Fuel is basically kerosene (so is Diesel), I'm not a chemical engineer but I think that it's cruder than gasoline and is produced earlier in the refining process. It is less volatile than gasoline also. Jet Fuel is more oily than AvGas and it is more dense. Turboprops do indeed burn jet fuel.

I am sure I am leaving out a bunch of the details but there's a start for you.

PW4084


User currently offlineB747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1671 times:

Dear Dash8King -
Jet fuel is essentially diesel fuel with anti-ice additives... I once had a diesel car and had a few tanks filled-up with jet fuel, works great, no problem.
Jet engines can "digest" just about anything liquid that burns, feed them with gasoline or kerosene, or cognac, a jet engine (or turboprop engine) will run perfectly well...
I own a little L-21C Super Cub, I supply myself with gasoline in jerrycans of gasoline from car service stations. That engine can run on 80 octane, I buy "regular" gasoline which is about 85-87 octane, works great and is more inexpensive than aviation gasoline, ... or petrol (if you are from England...)
Happy landings (s) Skipper


User currently offlinePPGMD From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1643 times:

With larger aircraft like C150-C152-C172 if you want to burn automotive gasoline (Mogas), it best to add some additives to it once in a while, the lead in 100LL (Avgas) (once again according to my A&P mech) is supposed to be lubricate of some sort, and he suggested that if I wanted to goto the Mogas STC in the PA-28 to run a gas aditive every couple of months.

The biggest diffrence between Mogas and Avgas, is that Mogas breaks down quickly, sometimes in as little as 6 months (from when you buy it at the pumps) while with Avgas, there have been cases where they found a 50yo supply that burns just fine. Now this isn't a problem if you burn all you have quickly.

Oh at the glider port, we fill the on-field cars with 100LL, well lets just say none of them would pass emissions tests.

Man talking about this is giving me gas... Big grin



At worst, you screw up and die.
User currently offlineThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1643 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1628 times:

On the other hand, avgas burns just fine in a car. My first real job was as a lineman at a small country airport; after I closed for the evening, I noticed that my car was low on gas for the trip home so I put a couple of gallons of 100/130 in the tank. Really woke that old junker up, for sure.

User currently offlineLeftypilot79 From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 455 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1621 times:

I worked as a lineman too. YAY  Laugh out loud But putting 100LL in anything new than say a 1970 automobile would be dumb? (when did they start putting catalytic converters on cars? ) Any new car is certified for unleaded ONLY...putting leaded gas in a car with a CAT is just asking for trouble.


aaron


User currently offlineDash8King From Canada, joined Nov 2001, 2742 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1587 times:

How much more is aviation gas on average per liter. I pay 89cents a liter for vehicle gas.

User currently offlineRacers22 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 175 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1582 times:

This summer I worked on the line crew at a local airport and we put 100LL in all of our fuel trucks. It definitely showed because they all ran like shit!!!

User currently offlinePmk From United States of America, joined May 1999, 664 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1556 times:

Well here's the pricing at my local airport.

TDZ

100LL $2.88USD/USGAL
Jet A $2.46USD/USGAL


Peter



User currently offlineTAA_Airbus From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1549 times:

100LL really hasnt taken off in australia as yet. Well atleast not on the western sea board.

User currently offlinePPGMD From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1541 times:

Well here in Florida 100LL prices can range from $1.89/gal (self serve) to $2.52/gallon (from the truck), heck I have even see it up to $3.00+/gal (full service I hope).

I mostly fuel up at the $1.89 places, fueling my own plane is a small price to pay to save $10-20 on fuel purchases. Whats best is the FBOs that will reimburse you at a set price, I try to find a cheaper price so I can actually make a little money. Then again, it seems like one of my friend has a map of all the cheap 100LL prices, we is always directing me to cheap fuel.



At worst, you screw up and die.
User currently offlineDash8King From Canada, joined Nov 2001, 2742 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1516 times:

Wow so Jet fuel is cheaper then 100LL (I forget what that stands for) I would have figured the other way around. But I guess since jets use more fuel that is why they have it like that.

User currently offlineBio15 From Colombia, joined Mar 2001, 1089 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1513 times:

>>> I'm not a chemical engineer but I think that it's cruder than gasoline and is produced earlier in the refining process

Just to clarify, during the distillation process of petroleum, the dense kerosene comes after the gasolines, and before the denser lubricant oils.

-bio


User currently offlinePW4084 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1499 times:

Thanks Bio15, I appreciate the clarification on that. Do you know if kerosene is cheaper than gasoline to produce ?

PW4084


User currently offlineB747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1494 times:

Kerosene - diesel fuel - heating oil... all other more inexpensive to produce than gasoline...
Gasoline, is expensive, the higher the octane, the higher the price...
But now, let's see... I am Mr. Exxon (or Esso in some countries), or Mr. Shell...
Supply and demand... so let's put the price up a little bit, to produce that jet fuel...
Dont you worry, the "Oil Sheiks" and Wall Street love each other... they dont say "you and your terrorists..." or "but these Palestinians and Israel..."
They hug each other and make deposits in their Swiss bank accounts...
Let's have a little war (like every other 10 years) so price can go up...
Poor people are the troops in the armies, and the consumer's majority...
(s) Skipper


User currently offlineDash8King From Canada, joined Nov 2001, 2742 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1481 times:

What kind of Fuel do the DC-3, DC-4, and C-46 engines use they are (radial right?). I read in Airliners that an airline from my hometown can only operate these planes for another ten years becuase there will no longer be any fuel for that type of engine.

User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1474 times:

Jet engines can "digest" just about anything liquid that burns, feed them with gasoline or kerosene, or cognac, a jet engine (or turboprop engine) will run perfectly well...

Jet fuel (and diesel for that matter) pretty much *is* kerosene.....


User currently offlineB747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1461 times:

Dear Dash8King -
These old DC3, DC4 and C46s engines will run until there is no more gasoline, for them or for cars... they do not require "high octane" gasoline, as far as I believe they run on 80-87 avgas, or, nowadays 100 low lead...
(s) Skipper


User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1436 times:

Dash8King,

Actually you may be referring to the fact that many airports no longer offer avgas service. This is particularly prevalent in the larger airports and in remote airports in northern Canada, (and possibly many other parts of the world) where many of these aircraft operate.

Many operators have to maintain their own fuel caches which proves to be expensive. Many American private pilots have a rude awakening when they try to purchase avgas at northern airports in Canada.

There is another angle to this as well. Many large compound piston engine aircraft used a high octane (purple) avgas that allowed them to take the most advantage of their high compression. I don't remember what the octane was. Constellations, DC-7Cs and a few others used this fuel.

When the jet age arrived, production of the high octane avgas waned and finally ceased forcing these large piston aircraft to modify performance figures. Higher octane fuels do not mean more power in themselves, they just allow for higher compression ratios in the engines. So don't fool yourself into thinking that higher octane fuel will make your particular engine make significantly more power, but it will reduce the chances of pre-ignition.


User currently offlineJetguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1431 times:

Theck out this link. It pretty well sums up what we may have to deal with in the next few years.

http://www.aviationnow.com/content/ncof/ncf_n40.htm


User currently offlineDash8King From Canada, joined Nov 2001, 2742 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1401 times:

Thanks for sharing that article Jetguy that was very informative.

User currently offlinePPGMD From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1391 times:

Well I guess there is no added pressure for the JA for GA program. Right now it looks good, but the thing is that the smallest engine that is being produces (at least by our partner) is for the C182 and is turbo-charged.


At worst, you screw up and die.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Fuel Question
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
B-747 Fuel Question posted Mon Oct 21 2002 08:10:34 by Mikeclod
Fuel Question posted Mon Aug 12 2002 09:20:30 by Dash8King
Fuel Question posted Sun Apr 28 2002 07:17:29 by Alee
B767-200 Fuel Consumption Question posted Sun Nov 12 2006 07:06:31 by Jetline
NonEngineer's Question About Fuel In Ceiling posted Thu Nov 2 2006 18:32:01 by SpeckSpot
DHC-8 Fuel Burn Question posted Tue Sep 26 2006 23:21:12 by Cruisertk421
Fuel Grade Question posted Sun Jun 25 2006 15:06:53 by Cancidas
757/67 Fuel On Question posted Fri May 5 2006 18:57:53 by Taguilo
Wing/Fuel Tank Question posted Tue May 2 2006 16:16:47 by 777DadandJr
Fuel Burn Question posted Tue Apr 4 2006 03:58:32 by Sleekjet

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format