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Can Any Aircraft Catch Concorde?  
User currently offlineRickb From United Kingdom, joined May 2003, 243 posts, RR: 9
Posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8482 times:

Something I have been wondering for a while, especially since the retirement a number of years ago of Kelly Johnson's SR71, is there a military (cant think of any civilian) aircraft that could actually chase down and catch Concorde?

I know aircraft like the F15 and Mig 25/31 have higher top speeds but it is well known that they can only sustain that kind of speed for a few minutes given that they have to run on afterburners the whole time, so my question is this, unless they where patrolling, waiting for it, is there any aircraft out there that can catch Concorde?

RickB


38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6819 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8413 times:

Ha! Good question. So you mean, if the F-15 is sitting on the runway as the Concorde passes at FL570 Mach 2, can the F-15 fly formation with it? Getting off a shot at it with a missile doesn't count as "catching", right?

Sounds unlikely, but I'm no expert. Can a heavy-with-fuel F-15 get past Mach 2 at all?


User currently offlineRickb From United Kingdom, joined May 2003, 243 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8388 times:

Timz,

Yup thats the question, although to be fair - if we say the same flight level but a couple of hundred miles away - could anything catch it ?

But you raise an interesting point - I know missiles fly fast, but how close would an F15 have to be to Concorde (flying at Mach2) to get a valid shot off? (i.e. close enough for the missile to make up the distance before running out of fuel?

RickB


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6819 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8377 times:

Well, my question is can the F-15 catch it even if Concorde flies directly overhead. Still sounds tough to me.

User currently offlineJj From Algeria, joined Jun 2001, 1227 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8382 times:

I'd think it'd have to be not too far, as the missile would probably take some time to catch up.

User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13191 posts, RR: 77
Reply 5, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8292 times:

Depends on the missile, no real long range ones around since the US Navy has pretty much retired the AIM-54 Phoenix on the F-14.
Apparently in the 1970's USN F-14's on carriers in the N.Atlantic would use Concorde as a high-altitude/high-speed interception target, but often the F-14's would come back with red-faced crews!
A few years ago some UK-based USAF F-15 pilots and engineers paid BA Concorde Engineering a visit, when they were told of the sustained mach 2 performance they were shocked! And the F-15 is a very high performance fighter.
In the late 1980's, BA had some photos done of G-BOAG taken at 'mach 2', impressive shots with the dark sky and curve of the earth taken from a stripped down RAF Tornado F3.
But the pics were really taken at mach 1.6/1.7 apparently, as the F3 really could not keep up, granted the F3 isn't the most sparkling performer at altitude, but it is a mach 2 combat aircraft.



User currently offlineNZ767 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 1620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8263 times:

..........well the Red Arrows can!! Big grin

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User currently offlineMD-87ER From Austria, joined Aug 2001, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 8206 times:

Well I would not call it "catching", but the TU-144 was supposed to fly faster than the Concorde (at least that's what I read in a book)

User currently offlineBackfire From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8160 times:

I suspect Concorde would have easily been caught by the North American XB-70 which, I believe, has both the speed and the range.

User currently offlineMas a330 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8148 times:

Haha, shooting a missile at a concorde! sounds like that show.... erm.. .airport 1975? not too sure....

User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 8129 times:

It all depends on geometry...
If the situation is a tailchase, it's very hard as overtake speed is low (relatively).
If on the other hand the two are head to head, the hard part is not overshooting because of the very high closure speed.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineThumper From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 550 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8025 times:

Don't know for sure because top speed is classified but the F-22 might be able too.

User currently offlineWestjet_8 From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 451 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8004 times:

The old Blackbird spy plane could but its not in service anymore  Sad


Canadian. RIP 1999
User currently onlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8232 posts, RR: 23
Reply 13, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7966 times:

The F-22 is capable of over mach 2, just how far over is classified. If anything can catch it from the ground, it's the -22.


This Website Censors Me
User currently onlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8232 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7957 times:

To give you an idea of missle range, the AIM54 has a range of about 90nm, the AIM7 about 30nm, and the AIM120 about 20 miles. The 54, however, has never been used in combat.


This Website Censors Me
User currently offlinePothiabs From United States of America, joined May 2001, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7965 times:

Don't tell me this posting will end up like MD90's question in late 2000 about the WTC's ability to resist impact of a B767.


User currently offlineAdmiral Ackbar From Canada, joined May 2002, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7945 times:

I believe that the Iranian Air Force has reported three kils for the AIM54A during the Iran-Iraq conflict in the early 80`s

Two Mirage F1`s and Mig-21 IIRC.


User currently offlinePositive rate From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 2143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7938 times:

The TU-144 has to keep afterburner on the whole time it's supersonic unlike the Concorde so it's got a lower range.

User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7914 times:

Oh Sure, Let's just go ahead and give the terrorists another stupid idea (If you know what I mean)  Yeah sure

User currently offlinePenguinflies From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 988 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7868 times:

Actually, a missile hitting the Concorde was part of a plot in the book HMS Unseen by P. Robinson.

User currently offlineMirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7443 posts, RR: 62
Reply 20, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7856 times:
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Rickb, sorry bout the last note. You are now in tech.ops.


Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
User currently offlinePositive rate From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 2143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7815 times:

There is no fighter jet out there that can sustain Mach 2 over a long period of time as Concorde does. The F-14/F-15/F-16/F-18 are all good for "temporary" Mach 1.5-2 bursts but they can't sustain it longer than about 10-15 mins at a time so they probably could not keep up with Concorde. SR-71 Blackbird and XB-70 Valkyerie could though and maybe MiG 25 too.

User currently offlinePPGMD From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7765 times:

If I remember correctly the Mig 25 is only get for 18 min bursts (or something like that).

I would venture to guess that the F-22 is the only aircraft that could catch it, they publicly admit that it can go Mach 2.



At worst, you screw up and die.
User currently offlineRickb From United Kingdom, joined May 2003, 243 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7646 times:

I read somewhere that the F22 can supercruise (supersonic without afterburners) but only to a speed of around Mach 1.4 - now how accurate this is, is anyones guess. Any faster and it needs normal afterburners so burns fuel at a similar rate to contemporary fighters.

Even so I would imagine that its range would be considerably less than Concordes at such speeds. Whether or not it has a speed advantage required to catch Concorde is another matter !!

I wonder if anyone ever considered Concorde to have any military potential ?

RickB


User currently offlineCovert From Ghana, joined Oct 2001, 1450 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7616 times:

Hmm, Concorde and nothing being able to catch it....That is very intriguing...I guess we better watch the Concorde more closely RickB. It could be a very dangerous military weapon, or even soemthing I don't want to mention....I can see that a big light bulb just popped up in some peoples heads. I honestly can't think of any aircraft that could hot chase Concorde down, unless they take a Blackbird out of retirement. The best bet right now is a Mig-25, which is a true Mach 3 intercepter, after all it was designed to counter high-flying supersonic American bombers. But the conditions would have to be very favorable, as the foxbat only carries so much fuel. Concorde is capale of Mach 2 flight of about 4000 nautical miles. After thinking about this, I think a closer eye should be on Concorde.

Of course, a radar guided missle such as phoenix shouldn't have any problem tackling it, as it carries no ecm, and its size presents a very large signature. Heat seekers generally have lesser range and are meant for close engagement. Since most missles have rocket motors, they are effective to 70,000+

covert



thank goodness for TCAS !
25 Greeneyes53787 : Convair F-106 GD F-111 Greeeneyes
26 Post contains images Woodreau : Depends on why you need to catch a Concorde... If it's just a "friendly-see-who-can-do-Mach 2-the-longest," there isn't anyone out there now I think t
27 SailorOrion : Having done my service exclusively on this system I can definetly tell that the Patriot has range, maximum altitude and speed which is plenty too shoo
28 GDB : On my two Concorde flights recently, I can tell you that security was tight-including at JFK. (I got a metal-detector and body search, shoe inspection
29 Rickb : I have to agree with GDB, I very much doubt anyone could get anything onboard that would be required to change Concorde into a threat - not only do yo
30 Post contains images Bellerophon : RickB I hope you meant groundspeed of 580 mph, because VMO at 7,000 feet, as an IAS, is 460 mph. Woodreau Concorde only achieves Mach 2.0 above about
31 NiteRider30 : Concerning the "threat" of a Concorde, here's a little something to chew on. The Concorde can achieve mach 2 at high altitudes... typically 55,000' an
32 Lehpron : "Oh Sure, Let's just go ahead and give the terrorists another stupid idea (If you know what I mean) " That's exactly what I was thinking...why are we
33 RayChuang : I think a well-maintained MiG-25 could keep up with the Concorde. If I remember the specs, the MiG-25 could cruise at Mach 2.6, but have short bursts
34 EssentialPowr : Gross conceptional error illustrated above... "Cruise" at 2.6? How long do you define cruise? Less than 25 min I hope...t/o roll to recovery. For the
35 SailorOrion : EssentialPowr: I said: once it has locked onto the target, thats a much much more complex task then people think. If fired, it is quite a hard task to
36 EssentialPowr : My point was just that, b/c a missle system can aquire a target, does not mean it can hit it. Sorry for the confusion.
37 Tomh : The B-58 Hustler, which served USAF from approx 1960-1970 had the capability to keep pace with a Concorde for extended periods. There was a suggestion
38 Post contains images Astrojet : For the X-15 to catch the Concorde is peanuts
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