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747-400er Question  
User currently offlineZebfly2 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 418 posts, RR: 1
Posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4893 times:

Forgive me if this has been asked/discussed b4 but what specific modifications have been made to the 747-400? I know that it has an increased range but what other changes have been made? Has seating been reduced, more composite materials, etc? Thanks in advance for your replies.


Educate your children before others mis-educate them!!!
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlineBio15 From Colombia, joined Mar 2001, 1089 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4894 times:

-Winglets (optional)
-Two crew flight deck (digitally based flight deck)
-Fuel housing horizontal stabilizer (3,300 gal increasing the range by around 350 nautical miles)
-Rudder deflection increased by 6 degrees to +/- 30 degrees
-Increased wheel size by 2 inches to house BFGoodrich carbon brakes
-More advanced alluminum alloys used for the wings
-New engine types: PW4056 derived from the JT9D, CF6-80C2B1F, RB.211-524G/H
-FADEC (Full-authority Digital Engine Control)
-APU now provided by Pratt & Whitney Canada instead of Garrett
-Restyled interior (including larger overhead storage bins), new cabin walls, new vacuum lavatory system
-Two new crew rest cabins

This from 'Modern Boeing Jetliners' by Guy Norris and Mark Wagner
Hope this helps


User currently offlineZebfly2 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 418 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4860 times:

Thanks Alferdo, you pretty much answered my question. When I 1st saw the news pics of it ,I was examining it for any external modifications. But winglets optional ? I thought it was a standard feature on all new 747-400's made including the freighters.

Educate your children before others mis-educate them!!!
User currently offlineAndroid From Japan, joined Jun 2002, 80 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 4860 times:

Hey Zebfly,
Alfredo has described the 400 improvements over the classic 747. The following excerpt from AWST describes the 747-400ER as you requested.

The -400ER has a maximum takeoff weight of 910,000 lb.--an increase of 35,000 lb. over the standard -400--to enable operators to fly the greater distance or carry up to 15,000 lb. more in passenger or cargo payload.

The aircraft will have an upgraded interior, an auxiliary fuel tank and a second optional auxiliary tank in the forward cargo compartment. It will also have strengthened fuselage, landing gear and wing components in addition to new and larger tires. The cockpit will have liquid-crystal displays and noise-reduction modifications.

SO FAR, QANTAS IS THE ONLY customer for the 747-400ER passenger aircraft, although a total of nine freighters have been ordered to date. The freighter, called the 747-400ERF, has a maximum takeoff weight of 910,000 lb. and, compared to the 747-400, can fly an extra 525 naut. mi., or carry an additional 22,000 lb. of payload on long-range flights at maximum takeoff weight. The freighter version was launched in April 2001.

Boeing today is offering four 747 versions: the 747-400 and -400ER passenger models and the 747-400F and -400ERF dedicated cargo transports. With a 747-XQLR launch, the -400ER passenger aircraft could be folded into the XQLR model.

Kurt Kraft, Boeing program manager for the Longer Range 747-400, said the first 747-400ER has been towed to the flight line where it will undergo a series of ground tests prior to first flight. Flight testing is scheduled to begin in the third week of July and continue through mid-October. Two flight test aircraft are expected to accumulate about 240 hr. of flight testing in addition to a total of about 410 hr. of ground tests.

The first 747-400ER to be delivered will be the second off the production line, with initial delivery to Qantas set for the third week in October after a short flight test program to certify the new interior. The second delivery to the airline, the aircraft just rolled out, will be made the following month.

Completion of the first 747-400ERF freighter is scheduled for August, with delivery to Air France in October after a brief series of flight tests.

Kraft said no 747-400ER deliveries have been delayed or canceled in the aftermath of Sept. 11, adding that a few orders have been added to the program and that Qantas has accelerated its delivery schedule.

Corky Townsend, Boeing 747-400XQLR program manager, said the XQ version of the aircraft would be based on the current 747-400 model with a maximum takeoff weight of 875,000 lb., with the aircraft capable of meeting QC2 limits.

©June 24, 2002, The McGraw-Hill Companies Inc.

User currently offlineCcrlR From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4771 times:
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This from 'Modern Boeing Jetliners' by Guy Norris and Mark Wagner
Hope this helps

I have that book too

"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
User currently offlineB747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4764 times:

Dear Zebfly2 -
Mentioning the "winglets" being standard on 747-400, they are not...
A special model, the 747-400D, delivered as -446D (JAL) and the -481D (ANA) are devoid of winglets, these aircraft are used on the domestic sectors within Japan... 400 "D" - D means "domestic"... short range flights, high cycle and lower weight airplanes...
Is not the first time JAL and ANA requested special versions of 747s... in the "747 Classic", they ordered 747-SR46 and -SR81, which had the same purpose - domestic flights - high cycle, lower weights... Boeing designation "SR" meant officially "Special Requirement"... not "short range" as some tend to believe, because the SR had the same fuel tanks as the 100s, and although restricted to lower weights to be approved for higher cycles, they could be also operated on regular routes at normal "100" series weights, but with a reduction of the "high cycle" certification...
First time I saw a "400D" was last May when I went to Japan, flying the Argentina soccer team on board, for the soccer world cup, and I thought these were regular "300s", as they look exactly like the 300s, stretched upper deck, no winglets... but it said "-400D", painted on the side...
(s) Skipper

User currently offlineBio15 From Colombia, joined Mar 2001, 1089 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4726 times:

Thanks android for helping me notice that. I had not heard on the 400ER, so for me, I also say thanks for the info.

Just to add a bit, the 747-400D has a strengthened fuselage to withstand the more frequent pressurization cycles of domestic flights. The only adaptation required to cope with the long distance flights efficiently, is adding the winglets which increase long-range cruise by 3 percent.


User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4559 times:


Sorry if this sounds "picky", but I believe the winglets are standard on the 747-400, but as you say, they are optional on the D model. I don't know of any airline that has not acquired a standard 747-400 without winglets. But I understand what you mean also.


User currently offlineB747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4545 times:

Dear Boeing Nut -
I thought so too, until a few months ago, I was in Japan, and commercialed as passenger on a ANA flight from Osaka to Sapporo...
The plane looked like a 300 series to me, did not pay much attention, and as I identified myself as a 747 captain to the cabin staff, I went to shake hands with the flight crew... surprise to me, 2 pilots, 400 cockpit...
I asked the captain "what kind of a 747 is this...?". He told me it was a 481D, the "400 equivalent" to the "747SR" they used to build for both ANA as well as JAL... high cycle, reduced weights... and had NO winglets...
And I thought I was a 747 "expert"... stupid me...
At my advanced age, still learning every day, sorry for my wheel chair (but I got 34 ply high speed tires on it, this to chase these cute nurses)...
(s) Skipper  Wink/being sarcastic

User currently offlineBio15 From Colombia, joined Mar 2001, 1089 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 4484 times:

I am not aware of any non-asian airline with the -400D

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User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (13 years 8 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 4455 times:


Greetings once again! Like I said earlier, I was doing a little nit-picking. As you now know, the 400D is a special version of our beloved 747-400. The regular "ole" 747-400 comes with winglets, whereas the 400D model is, as you said, a modern version of the 747SR. No winglets, designed for high cycles. Airlines also had the option on the "d" model to use them initially on the "high cycle" routes. Then, after a brief "shuttle" career, Boeing would install the winglets so the airline could use the 400D as a standard long-range 747-400.

Quite the useful aircraft, isn't it? Long live the 747!!!

User currently offlineB747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (13 years 8 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4429 times:

Dear Boeing Nut -
Same thing happended to the 747-SR46 and -SR81, they were late used as regular international equipment... I understand some 400Ds already have been modified to fly international routes and... they got fitted with winglets...
That ANA -400D was very high (Japanese size) seating... 79 seats upper deck and 490+ seats main deck... Cannot remember what the purser told me, after visiting the captain on that Osaka-Sapporo flight... Not far from 570 seats... sure is not a long flight, a little less than 2 hours. Leave it to Japan to make all efficient... despite the high density seating, the cabin service was excellent, they had 15 flight attendants if I remember well...
(s) Skipper

User currently offline9V-SVA From Singapore, joined Aug 2001, 1861 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (13 years 8 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4432 times:

The Boeing 747-400D does not have the extra fuel tanks that the standard Boeing 747-400 has. They can however be retrofitted at a later stage with winglets.(and a change of certification of course)

The JAL aircraft that crashed in 1985(JL123) was a Boeing 747-SR46. It suffered a tailstrike in 1978 and Boeing engineers did not repair the tail properly.


9V-SVA | B772ER
User currently offlineBOEING747400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (13 years 8 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4300 times:

I've heard that the B744ER only comes with either GE CF6-80C2B5F or PW 4062 engines but there's no new RR powerplant for that model? Perhaps the RR Trent 600 series fills in that void but I'm not quite sure about that. Thanks.

User currently offlineAFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (13 years 8 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4259 times:

Hello BOEING747400,

Small extract from my article on the 747-400X, ER & QLR derivatives...

All three manufacturers presented the engines they were already marketing on the 747-400: the CF6-80C2B5F (62,100lb), RB.211-524H8-T (59,500lb) and PW4062 (63,300lb).

Hope that helps.

Best regards,
Alain Mengus
Air Transport Business

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