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How Does ATC Work In Korea (Inchon ACC)?  
User currently offlineRyu2 From Taiwan, joined Aug 2002, 493 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6664 times:

I flew UA ICN-NRT today, and was listening to 'Channel 9', the ATC feature. I noticed that on our frequency, we only had non-Korean flights, and Inchon control pointed out 'traffic' in our vicinity, which I did not hear transmitting on our frequency.

Since I saw several Korean Air and Asiana aircraft depart ICN about the same time we did headed to Japan as well, I assume they must be in the air as well -- do the Korean planes use a different frequency with a Korean speaking controller, and foreign planes speak on a English frequency? And the controller points out the traffic, which are the Korean or Asiana planes? I notice that the Korean planes spoke Korean with ICN ground, unlike say, Japan, where all planes, even Japanese planes, speak English.

Is that assumption of dual languages/frequencies correct? If this is how it works, is that a safety problem?

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineEjazz From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2002, 722 posts, RR: 34
Reply 1, posted (11 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6635 times:

There are no seperate frequencies for seperate languages at ICN. Everyone should be using english but this is usually not the case at ICN.


Etihad Girl, You're a great way to fly.
User currently offlineRyu2 From Taiwan, joined Aug 2002, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6572 times:

So, do they have a formal English only rule in Korea which is not enforced? Or is English just a "recommendation"?

I heard that when Air France tried to get their pilots to speak English in France instead of French, they nearly revolted... wonder how the situation is in Korea?


User currently offlineCx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6605 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6549 times:

Shanghai is close by, and they are either using the same frequency, or there is a lot of breakthrough, because I can normally hear Chinese spoken on the frequency.

User currently offlineDispatcher From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 254 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6537 times:

I also heard the ROKAF flies with impunity, taking responsibility for seperation upon themselves. Maybe that is the traffic they are calling out.

User currently offlineKAL_LM From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 497 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6533 times:

I've had this discussion with several of the pilots that come through here and technically, English is to be used, and usually is. ALthough I do know thatthe Korean crews do talk to ground ops in Korean and may also talk to ATC that way. But techincally it should be English.

regards,
Tom



is that a light at the end of the tunnel or just a train?
User currently offlineRyu2 From Taiwan, joined Aug 2002, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6534 times:

KAL_LM, that's interesting to hear about Korean planes speaking English in Korea.

From listening to UA Channel 9, it's also the case in Japan that English is to be used, even by Japanese planes. But in China's airspace, all the Chinese airlines speak Chinese (Mandarin), so English only is obviously not the case for all countries. Perhaps the English rule may be due to US military traffic and US military controlled ATC zones in Japan and Korea, maybe?


User currently offlineB777av8r From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 31 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6518 times:

The ATC at RKSI (ICN) is very good. English is the language that is used and NO, the local pilots don't have their own frequencies to use.

User currently offlineTsentsan From Singapore, joined Jan 2002, 2016 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6502 times:

I reckon if you've heard China Southern / China Eastern and gang transmit on ATC, you'd be more comfortable with them heeding to instructions in Mandarin once they're in China...

I think in another post, Mandala499 mentioned that CGK clearance had to enlist the help of a CX pilot to translate what they wanted to say to one particular Chinese airline in Mandarin!



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User currently offlineSudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6498 times:

Isn't this worrying that all pilots can't speak english, as that is the aviation language?
Don't it raise the risk that something could happen one day due to that the pilot could not understand ATC, and would make a misstake?

Do you as a pilot feel comfortable with this?



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlineKLAX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6483 times:

The ICAO approves a couple different languages that are allowed to be used in countries that speak the respective language, although non-speaking pilots and controlers may and usually must revert to English. If I remember correctly, the languages are:
-Spanish
-Chinese
-English
-French
-Portugese

So, Korean pilots should be speaking English.

-Clovis  Smile


User currently offlineRyu2 From Taiwan, joined Aug 2002, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6403 times:

CX flyboy -- might the Chinese you have heard over frequency be Chinese planes talking to one another? While I was flying UA and listenning to Channel 9, I have heard Chinese aircraft talk to each other (obviously in Chinese) over public ATC frequencies in Japan before. (I suppose that's a nono, right?)

User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5220 times:

Perhaps the controller was broadcasting on multiple frequencies.


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineJgarrido From Guam, joined Mar 2007, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5206 times:

Quoting Sudden (Reply 9):
Isn't this worrying that all pilots can't speak english, as that is the aviation language?
Don't it raise the risk that something could happen one day due to that the pilot could not understand ATC, and would make a misstake?

It happens but some airlines have people on board who speak English as a first language to help the pilots understand the communication from English speaking controllers. I've heard the "round-eye" parroting my instructions in the background on many a JAL flight.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21642 posts, RR: 55
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5203 times:

Quoting Tsentsan (Reply 8):
I reckon if you've heard China Southern / China Eastern and gang transmit on ATC, you'd be more comfortable with them heeding to instructions in Mandarin once they're in China...

 yes   thumbsup 

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6392 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5201 times:

In Mexico the controllers speak Spanish until someone on frequency starts speaking "La Idioma Otra"  Smile Even then, only the communcation between you and the controller is English, and the controllers that I've encountered in Mexico usually speak with a very thick accent and broken English  Wink


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5157 times:

Quoting Ryu2 (Thread starter):
I did not hear transmitting on our frequency.

Certainly not sure of how things are worked in Korea however it is very common for traffic to be issued from one sector about an aircraft in another sector, in which case you'd never hear the other aircraft. Most common when in sectors are on top of one another.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
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