B747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 9021 times:
Hi Mirrodie -
The "Checkerboard" approach was the approach to runway 13 at the old HongKong airport, which was basically an ILS oriented 45 degrees OFF the runway orientation... there was a large "cherckerboard" in white and red colors located on a hill as a visual reference point to signal the pilots to make a turn to the right to align with the runway...
A famous approach indeed, not that it was difficult, and unusual... definitely required some practice and training... I have a video that filmed the approach itself (I did place the camera with masking tape on the aircraft glareshield) and since it was a sunny visual day, it shows the complete scenery of HongKong during the approach, the "checkerboard", and the turn to line-up and touchdown on that runway 13, if anyone wants it, I can provide it in NTSC or PAL standards, about 15 minutes long...
B747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 8989 times:
Dear Rai -
Canarsie to 13L/R is not an instrument approach, it is an approach flown visually but you are in a sense correct, it requires a RH turn, about 90 degrees to align with the runways, we keep the Shore Parkway on our left, then we look for flashing leading-in lights... actually it is about as challenging or as unusual as the Cherckerboard in HKG... quite scenic from the air as well, and if you like to take pictures of airplanes during landing, the parking of the old International Hotel short of 13L provides the best spot, as they complete their turn above that parking...
Covert From Ghana, joined Oct 2001, 1503 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 8987 times:
A question about Kai Tak 13 approach--if the ILS was offset so much into the hill, then how could landings be shot under IMC conditions. I don't think you could see the PAPI when visibility is nil, nor do I think you could change the ils frequencies and setup so fast after that turn? Where I was living before I'm used to seeing ILS "straight-in" approaches...
Rai From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 8962 times:
I know their are landing lights on top of the Shereton Hotel which is in front of Runway 13L. Planes usually finish off their turns over that building. I think there are some along the Belt, but I'm not so sure. Maybe Mirrodie can confirm as he's probably more familiar with that part of Queens than I am.
I've seen them use the Canarsie VOR even in bad or foggy weather. If this is a visual approach, how is this possible? Also, why do they use the Canarsie VOR? Why not ILS approach for those runways? I'm sure that JFK traffic is far enough from La Guardia traffic to allow for ILS runway 13R/L landings.
You can also say the same thing for LGA runway 31 landings (expressway visual approach), which make just as dramatic turns as the Canarsie VOR or Kai Tak. Why don't they use ILS for that runway too?
I mean, we don't have any mountains like Hong Kong that would affect air traffic patterns, so why all the funny approaches?
AAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3531 posts, RR: 44
Reply 11, posted (12 years 11 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8678 times:
>A question about Kai Tak 13 approach--if the ILS was offset so much into the hill,
>then how could landings be shot under IMC conditions.
It is an instrument approach to visual conditions for landing. If you can not actually see the checkerboard, you must fly missed approach procedure. Flying past the checkerboard takes you into PRC territory. All the charts I saw (1960's-80's) had a bold prominant warning that you _will_ be shot down if entering PRC airspace without prior approval. Hawkeye crews were required to provide "close control" monitoring of any USN aircraft flying in/out of HKG for VIP's.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
CPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6308 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (12 years 11 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8588 times:
I think that the reason for the Canarsie approach is used, is that airlines coming from the north, will have it much easier being vectored down south to the east of JFK, and then north towards the CRI (Canarsie) VOR, instead of taking them to the west of JFK, into one heck of a busy airspace.
I'd guess that only aircrafts coming from the NW/W/SW would be taken onto the ILS for 13L/R, whereas aircrafts coming from any other directions would be taken around to the south. But that, of course, depends on the amount of traffic in the NY TRACON area.
N949WP From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2000, 1437 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (12 years 11 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8554 times:
".....flying past the checkerboard takes you into PRC territory."
That's simply not true !! PRC territory is a still a long way off.
The IGS approach to 13 at Kai Tak required pilots to establish visual with the landing lights (arranged in a curve to match the turn) and the runway by the middle marker. It was totally manual flying from that point onward until the landing. If visual was not established by the middle marker, then it was a mandatory go around. The warnings on the Jeppersen charts for Kai Tak said to the effect ".......continue flying on the IGS heading will lead to loss of terrain clearance". Indeed, flying past the checkboard without making the right turn will put you on a collision course with an 1800-foot mountain.
CCA From Hong Kong, joined Oct 2002, 887 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (12 years 11 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8509 times:
I still have the approach charts for Kai Tak and N949WP is correct.
Chart 11-3 IGS
The system uses ILS components but is offset from the landing direction by 47 degrees. Pilots on final approach on the IGS must therefore make a visual RIGHT turn to line up with the runway after reaching the decision height. During the visual portion, it is imperative that the correct visual cue with the surface is carefully maintained, making reference to aeronautical ground lights where appropriate.
In view of the local terrain and the IGS being offset from the runway, operators intending to use the IGS must ensure, for flight safety reasons, that their pilots are fully conversant with, and have adequate practice in, published procedures.
Now the inbound course was 088 degrees and the MDA was 675' @ the MM or 2.2D and the missed approach is:
Continue on the IGS LOC, climbing to 4500'; at the MM or 2.2D, turn RIGHT to intercept and establish inbound on TH VOR R-316(136) and join the hold at TH.
WARNING: Continued flight on the IGS system flight path after passing the MM will result in loss of terrain. (You're flying right at the Checkerboard)
If you continue straight ahead there is a mountain about 2miles from the MM and has a 1975' spot height.
WARNING: Missed approach is mandatory by the MM if visual flight is not achieved by this point. In carrying out the missed approach procedure, the right turn must be made at the MM as an early or late turn will result in loss of terrain clearance. (early will result in you heading for Hong Kong Island with spot heights of 1787' and 1929').
Shaun3000 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 445 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (12 years 11 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8437 times:
It's a standard pattern used in aviation for high-visibility. Go out to an airport and find a water tower near there. Many times the watertower will have an orange and white checkerboard pattern on it. It makes it MUCH easier to see from the air. Or just go find any radio tower. The ones with red warning lights will be painted alternating orange and white. (Those using white strobes don't need the paint as the strobes are just as visible during the day as they are at night. The red lights don't show up well during the day and the paint, obviously, doesn't help at night)
Near Saint Louis Downtown Parks, there are a couple HUGE electrical towers used to cross power lines over the Mississippi. They are tall enough that they have to have FAA warning lights on them and since they are not strobes, they have be painted aviation white and orange, as well. There are a buch of other, shorter towers in the same area that are not painted as they are not tall enough. I can ALWAYS spot the tall, orange and white towers before I see the unpainted ones. For some reason, this pattern stands out very well.
I do believe the checkerboard at Kai Tak was lit, at night, just like a billboard.
ThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1706 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (12 years 11 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8369 times:
I have heard that the old 4-course range approach into Hong Kong was even hairier than the IGS approach and involved losing altitude by flying figure eights around two islands after breaking out. Does anybody have any info or a chart of this? Maybe it was just a juicy rumor?