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Going Around Due To 'unsecure Cabin'  
User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Posted (12 years 2 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5082 times:

Hi,
I was at LHR in the late morning/early afternoon and one BA772 flight went around VERY late due to an 'insecure cabin'.What exactly does this mean?Cockpit door wasnt locked?
Thanks,Alex



23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSabenaboy From Belgium, joined Feb 2001, 187 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (12 years 2 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5029 times:

"insecure cabin" means that the flight attendants have not signaled the cockpit crew that the passenger cabin is fully ready for the landing.

Just one example: there might still be a beverage cart loose in the passenger alley. This might of course cause injury when braking.

This is just one example of why a cabin could be "insecure". I suppose you can come up with a few other reasons yourself.

(Oh well, here's another one: a sick passenger in the toilet and the F/A's were not able to take this passenger back to a seat and buckle her up in time for the landing.)

Sabenaboy


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 2 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5048 times:

Not all the stuff in the cabin (galley equip, service items) had been put away or "secured"....

User currently offline411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (12 years 2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4928 times:

In more than thirty five years in airline flying, have never aborted a landing because the cabin was not ready.
The cabin crew will be informed before takeoff of the estimated time enroute and the landing time is normally communicated to them long before descent is commenced.
If these same cabin crew can NOT co-ordinate activities any better, they need to find new jobs...period.


User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (12 years 2 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4900 times:

Cheers guys,

411A it happened VERY late.I took a shot of the plane at about .5DME and about 2 seconds later it lifted up.Plus,when flying into LHR you can usually add 5-10 minutes on to your ETA unless your arriving at 5 am or 11 pm.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29836 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (12 years 2 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4893 times:

A lot of times it is used as an excuse to cover for the pilots when they screw up.


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (12 years 2 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4875 times:

I suggest that there are different degrees of "insecure cabin". Most probably won't warrent a go-around but it is within the realm of possibility that the pilots were informed of a potentially dangerous condition by the cabin crew.

Perhaps one or more passengers decided to stand up.


User currently offline411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (12 years 2 months 6 days ago) and read 4865 times:

Airplay,
Speaking of standing up, my wife was returning to the USA from BKK via NRT on NW about twelve years ago, when just after the B747 started the takeoff roll, a Japanese man stood up, rushed for the L4 door, opened same and tried to jump out. Grabbed by two men and hauled back in...takeoff aborted and taxied back to the stand with the slide flapping in the breeze.
After the fellow was taken away to the rubber room, the flight could not depart full because no spare slide was available on station. No shortage of volunteers to deplane...about 90 wanted off, NOW.


User currently offlineXXXX10 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 777 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (12 years 2 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4858 times:

If that was at LHR 19/10 I was there as well that 777 climbed very quickly and didn't seem to loose much height.

Out of interest how do you know it was from an unsecured cabin? Did you here it on ATC. I wonder if there were any other forum members there.


User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 9, posted (12 years 2 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4835 times:

Hi XXXX10,
I was listening to LHR tower at the time and that was the reason given.


User currently offlineKLAX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4817 times:

Thats quite interesting. I've never seen an aircraft go-around because of that. It reminds me of what I saw this summer at LAX with photographer Paul Paulsen on a late evening. We were crossing the final approach lights of runway 24R by foot, when a JAL 744 came in. It landed, and a few short minutes later a Polar Air Cargo 744 came in behind JAL. We saw its landing lights while it was further out and saw it was a 747. It came in, right over us, over the green threshold lights, and at a height of approx. 30-40ft applied full power and went around. I swear the gear would have touched the ground had they not been retracted. It was an awesome sight. Unfortunatley neither of us had our scanners on, but we think he went around because JAL was still on the runway. Paul's son caught it on video, I haven't seen it yet, but I really would. Big grin

-Clovis


User currently offlineB747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (12 years 2 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4818 times:

I go along in formation flight with 411A here - if the cabin staff cannot get ready and set, I sign the report as such, and they will look for a new job...
xxx
Our purser always come visit us, and ask for "early seat belt sign ON" if they see that preparing the cabin will take longer than normal. I personally make a PA to the cabin, advise the passengers that they better visit the toilets since I will turn the seat belt sign in the next few minutes... We normally put the seat belt sign ON at top of descend, that gives them 35-40 minutes to landing.
xxx
...Or is this one of these airlines where crew communications are stopped by the cockpit door...? Don't ask me why I love cargo airplanes, little boxes never complain, about late arrivals or cabin too warm.
xxx
(s) Skipper  Wink/being sarcastic


User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 2 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4769 times:

Do the cabin crew get to "right up" the flight crew and get them fired when they gaf?

 Smile



User currently offlineSudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (12 years 2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4714 times:

Depending on which airline I fly on, I always here some kind of "hint" from the flightdeck on the PA that landing is in the "neighbhourhood".
"Cabincrew, prepare for landing" or "cabin A/T's 10 min. to landing".
So I think the crew are aware when the landing is going to happen and work after the time that are given on the PA or whatever.
So I would say the reason is another then that one that was given.



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlineLMML 14/32 From Malta, joined Jan 2001, 2565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4505 times:

Another reason may be that a passenger decided to go to the lavatory inthe last moment. Some people are stubborn and do not realise the consequences of their actions. It happened to me and I reported to the captain that cabin is not secure. The captain did not hesitate to go around.

User currently offlineSilverfox From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1058 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4482 times:

About 10yrs ago i was on a BA CDG-LHR flight (767) and that did a go around due to unsecured cabin. Got the lot on video from initial finals to arriving at the stand WHEN the pilot told us why he had done it. There were a few passengers worried having seen the ground VERY close and the being whisked up again with no explanation.
I just thought the extra ride round West london was worth it.


User currently offlineMikeclod From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 272 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4466 times:

Hello, I watched this happen on a Horizon flight a year or so ago. I passenger would not leave the lav, so they had to go around. They couldn't get him out, so they finally landed and had about ten airport cops pull him out. I wonder what kind of charges he got.
Mikeclod


User currently offlineB747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4456 times:

Charges are "interfering with flight crew" - and some airlines are stopping to be "nice" to passengers about that...
xxx
Example - turbulence, seat belt sign is ON... you wear a seat belt as recommended, you get hurt by item falling off overhead bin - you got to court and you will get damages...
xxx
But if you do not wear seat belt - and do acrobatics with you body against the cabin ceiling, even get hurt... - try to get a single penny in courts... worse, try not to be charged yourself, to have endangered the other passengers who are around you... this was one of the topics discussed at last IATA meetings dealing with cabin safety...
xxx
(s) Skipper  Smile


User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4411 times:

I've always wondered why passengers immediately release their seat belts when the 'Seat Belts On'sign comes off.Especially when they begin to prepare to sleep shortly afterwards.

User currently offlineLuzezito From Spain, joined May 2001, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4323 times:

I was returning from MAD to Moscow last Sunday on a very unexpected and unwelcome TU 154M instead of the usual A310 and this is what happened. Well into the take off roll you had a f/a walking up the aisle to take his seat and a passenger standing up to stow his coat and as soon as he sat back down we were airborne.

Make your own conclusions



Quoniam Vita Brevis Est, Propera!
User currently offlineKestrel From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2002, 93 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4309 times:


Prior to 9/11 and locking the Flight Deck door, after the seatbelt signs had been switched on and the cabin crew checked their individual areas, the No1 would advise the Captain in person 'All seat belts fastened'. When the Flight Deck PA 'Cabin Crew 10 minutes to landing' was made, the crew would once again do a final sweep to ensure their area was still secure (including galleys/lavs etc) and contact the No1 crew member to advise. The No1 would then go into the flight deck...controversially was supposed to put hand on Captains shoulder (often disliked by both Cabin and Flight Deck crew, depending on the various permutations of the two people involved!) to assure his/her attention whilst turning over the Cabin Secure for landing 'flipper' card that our a/c have' previously it would (or should) have still been in the Cabin secure for take off position. After my only NEAR go around due to Captain thinking cabin wasn't secure, I realised one of our younger visitors to the flight deck that day had been playing with the flipper! That taught me never just to turn the flipper to the opposite side that you had prior to take off, but to confirm it was giving the correct message!

The Cabin Secure for landing check to the flight deck means all pax are seated/belted/baggage stowed/lavs locked off/galleys secure (and cross-checked by a second crew member after an incident some years back when on landing an unsecured double duty free cart (VERY heavy!) proceeded to travel from the aft galley, down the full length of the 37 row a/c and terminate its journey IN the flight deck having totally destroyed the flight deck door, and possibly a few wayward passenger arms/legs that were silly enough to but stuck out in the aisle!)

About 2-3 mins prior to landing, F/D make P/A 'Cabin Crew Seats for landing'. If for any reason this PA is not made, we must be seated when we hear the undercarriage go down.

Since the Flight Deck door has become locked due to FAA requirements, there has been the inevitable breakdown in communication between the Cabin & Flight crew. Seatbelt checks were no longer to be passed to the Captain but just to the No1. After 10 mins PA, No1 would then ring F/D to advise secure for landing,and the non-flying pilot would then turn Cabin Secure flipper. After numerous complaints (especially on the Airbus fleet) that the call may arrive when they are very busy and the chime/buzzer that sounds when you call cabin to flight deck can be distracting, the procedure changed again so that now the Flight Deck call the FWD crew station to take the check from the No1 - if they remember!


User currently offlineConcorde1518 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 746 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4252 times:

Hey, Kestrel, just wondering, what is the "flipper?" Could you explain more about that to me?

Thanks
 Smile


User currently offlineKestrel From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2002, 93 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4256 times:

Hi Concorde1518

The 'flipper' I mentioned is just basically a small placard which is attached to the centre console in the flight deck on all the aircraft in our fleet. One side is blue and has (luminous) picture of an aircraft taking off = Cabin Secure for Take Off while the other side is green and has a picture of an aircraft landing = Cabin Secure for Landing. As it was the No1 crew members responsibility to go into the flight deck, advise that cabin was secure for take off/landing she/he would also 'flip' this placard to the appropriate side.

I think they were installed on our aircraft because naturally at that point the Flight crew are very busy, and the Cabin Secure check being given verbally only could be overlooked by the pilots if something was distracting them - so when the checklist was being read out before landing and the check 'Cabin Secured' was given, the other pilot could look at the flipper to confirm that the cabin was secure.

Of course, I guess these days there isn't really much point to it as the No1 gives the check over the interphone to the Captain because of the locked flight deck door policy.

Kestrel


User currently offlineConcorde1518 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 746 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (12 years 1 month 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4180 times:

Oh, I see, Thanks for that!

 Smile


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