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Visually Differentiating Between Models  
User currently offlineMjsmigel From United States of America, joined Oct 2002, 56 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 years 9 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1678 times:

Is there any way to tell the difference visually between:

1) The DC-10-10 / DC-10-30 / DC-10-40

2) The DC-8-10/20/30/40 (all I found is minor differences on the
engine casings)

Actually I should ask if there is ANY FAQ or guide explaining how to
differentiate all the models within each type.

I thought I figured out the 747-100 vs. -200 by the upper deck
window pattern but then I found even THAT isn't reliable. Sheesh!

Mark


18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineB747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 9 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1665 times:

Hello Mark - welcome to A.net...
xxx
To help you for all these details, only aircraft "spotters" and photographers are really experts for "visual differences" of aircraft... I am a 747 pilot, and the only differences I am interessed in, are "technical differences"... not if airplane xyz of the fleet is "painted in national soccer team colors"...
xxx
In my career I flew 707, 727 and DC8s - so I can often recognize these and could tell you what they are... but pilots often know that "such airline" has a given model, not really being able to differentiate them at an airport... The other airplanes, I have no idea... 727 as an example, I flew the 100 and 200 models, and reading some posts here, they mention models I never heard about... My 13 years old boy probably knows them better than me...
xxx
I would suggest you acquire books or fleet listings of aircraft, as the only possible way to know which "model" an aircraft is, use registration letters. Aircraft that are new to an airline are easy to name, but once you deal with aircraft that have been sold to 2 or 3 different airlines, you will have a definite problem to recognize which model it is...
xxx
If you find a way to recognize a 747-100 from a 200, let me know about it.
xxx
For the 747-100/200 the ONLY external difference is the size of the tires, the 100s have smaller wheels (but the 100B have the 200 gear and wheels)... But as to reading the size of the tires on a 747 which is parked 1,000 feet away, at my age, my eyes are not able to do that anymore...
xxx
Once again, welcome to you  Smile
(s) Skipper



User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 9 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1660 times:

On the DC-10s, the DC-10-10 only has two of the main landing gears (four tires), whereas the -30 and -40 have an additional gear (two tires) that extends from the centerline of the aircraft. If I remember correctly, the -30s and -40s can leave this retracted if certain conditions are met, so any DC-10 with only two main gears extended isn't necessarily a -10.

Aside from the same main gears, the -30s and -40s have different engines. The -30 has the same GE CF-6 engines as the -10 does, but the -40 has Pratts. The -40 was originally ordered by NWA, for engine commonality with their 747 fleet. If memory serves, there some visual differences between the two engines, especially in the number 2 position in the tail, but I'm sure someone else will chime in with specifics.

Hope this helps...


User currently offlineMjsmigel From United States of America, joined Oct 2002, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (11 years 9 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1652 times:

B747skipper, thanks for the welcome.... you're one of the informative,
expert posters who clinched my decision to sign up here.  Smile

Mark



User currently offlineBroke From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 1322 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1557 times:

There are actually 4 different basic versions of the DC-10.
Chronologically they are;

DC-10-10 - Powered by GE CF-6-6's Known as the domestic version, it designed to operate coast to coast in the US.

DC-10-30 - Powered by GE CF-6-50's This is the first version with the centerline main landing gear. I expect that the nacelles would be different between this version and the CF-6-6 powered airplane.

DC-10-40 - Powered by P&WA JT9D's, but there are two versions of this power plant on the DC-10-40. NWA airplanes use the JT9D-20, which is a unique version of the JT9D with almost no commonality with other JT9D's. JAL airplanes use the JT9D-59, which have a lot of commonality with other JT9D's. This version was originally called the DC-10-20, but someone in marketing (either Douglas or the Airlines) felt that this designation would make passengers feel that they were flying in an older version of the DC-10. These airplanes also have the centerline main landing gear. The inlet for the number 2 engine is slightly larger than that on the other DC-10's and tapers down to standard size at the vertical stabilizer. Comics in the group called it the foreskin.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

DC-10-15 - This is basically a DC-10-10 with GE CF-6-50's and higher weights; there were built only for Aeromexico (15 I think).

We used the DC-10 in its early days as source of amusement for the uninitiated spotters. We would see a DC-10-10 and say that that was being flown by an experienced crew. We would see a DC-10-30 or a DC-10-40 with the center gear extended and tell them that that was being flown by an inexperienced crew. They would ask us how we knew and we would tell them that the extra gear was actually "Training Wheels" for use by inexperienced crews. I don't know how many bit on that, but some did.  Acting devilish


User currently offlineMjsmigel From United States of America, joined Oct 2002, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1542 times:

[DC-10-40]The inlet for the number 2 engine is slightly larger than that on the other DC-10's and tapers down to standard size at the vertical stabilizer. Comics in the group called it the foreskin.

Whoa.... I've never noticed that. Very interesting.

I wonder what the need for the extra diameter is, considering that the CF6-50C2 produces more thrust than the PW JT9D-20/50.


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Photo © Mark Abbott




User currently offlineDoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3401 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1490 times:

For all practical purposes, the best way to diffreenciate the early dc-8s is the engines. the most failproof way I've found of keeping the 10-30 from the -40 is the cone that the Pratts have extending out of the hot section (see above pick).


When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 53
Reply 7, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1486 times:

Typically, the 741's have only 3 upper deck windows too, but I think there are 742's like this too and 741's with a whole set of windows on the upper deck so generally thats not the most accurate way to differentiate...

Greg



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlineB747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1481 times:

Dear Greg -
Originally the 100s came with 3 windows, but there is no way to recognize the 100s from the 200s... Yes, if an airplane with 3 windows, it is a 100... but the last 100s built all had the "many windows" option...
xxx
Try to recognize a 100SR (SUD) from a 200B (SUD) from a 300...
Impossible task...
xxx
As far as I am concerned, I call the 100/200s "100/200s" and never attempted to make the difference between them... When I have to fly one I do not know (i.e. like a leased aircraft), I say "what engines, what gross weight airplane has...?" - that is about all we need to know...
xxx
Is like knowing which ones have 1 upper deck exit (RH side), and the planes that have one on both sides...
(s) Skipper


User currently offlineMjsmigel From United States of America, joined Oct 2002, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks ago) and read 1459 times:

Skipper--

I am curious if the 747's upper deck doors have ever been used for allowing the flight crew to board (via airstairs, jetway, whatever). Or are they strictly emergency exits?

MJ


User currently offlineB747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1459 times:

For crew use - well yes and no -
xxx
In my PanAm days, we boarded generally through L-1 (occasionally L-2) since we came in through terminal and jetways... And that is the way it is here in Argentina and where we go...
xxx
But in the cargo environment, it is sometimes different... I worked briefly for Cargolux after PanAm's demise, and in ELLX we often boarded through the LH upper deck door... back then I was flying their 747-271Cs (ex TransAmerica convertible planes with the 2 doors on the upper deck) - at a few stations, we used that door, but not often...
xxx
Cargolux also had 16 nice reclinable seats upstairs, a full galley, and often a flight attendant for VIP passengers... i.e. the heads of Mercedes Benz, while we were flying their new cars for the Dubai Car Show...
xxx
As far as we are concerned - 95% of the time - considered emergency exits, and "emergency air conditioning"...
(s) Skipper  Smile


User currently offlineJustplanesmart From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 718 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1434 times:

Not all 747's with three upper deck windows are -100's, as these photos show:


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Photo © Andrew Abshier
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Photo © Kjell nilsson



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Photo © Andrew Hunt
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Photo © Eduard Marmet



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Photo © Johan Ljungdahl
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Photo © Johan Ljungdahl




"So many planes; so little time..."
User currently offlineB747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1432 times:

Dear Justplanesmart - You got me - right... you are showing the early-early generation of the 200s delivered to airlines back in 1970-71 period...
xxx
Actually - I would have expected more windows on about half of these airplanes, and I know many of these airlines later "added windows" when opportunity of heavy maintenance presented itself...
xxx
Half of the airplanes you show on these pictures I know well - HB-IGA/IGB, I flew both with Air Atlanta in 1993 as TF-ABK and ABL, they had the "10 windows" per side on the upper deck when I flew these, I think - JA8104 was JAL's first 200... I remember Sabena's OO-SGA/SGB, initially 3 windows, got 10 windows later...
xxx
Apparently, the first 747 with 10 windows was Quantas VH-EBA delivered in JUN 1971... so I have to correct myself by saying that generally the first one or two 200s delivered to airlines in 1970-71 only had 3 windows per side...
xxx
With my "Alma Mater" PanAm, all our 100s were with 3 windows, all our 200s were with 10 windows, as well as the SPs... there was no exceptions, at least for PanAm... and yet we got many planes from AA and UA... all our 200s came from SQ... When I went to school for the 747 with PanAm, they told us "all the 100s have 3 windows, the SP and 200s have 10 windows"... that is what "our manuals" did say in print... I learned later they were wrong...
xxx
All the later 100s, and 100B had 10 windows... I am a 747 pilot, but appears that my knowledge of the appearance of 747s is not my expertise... in all honesty, I am much more interested in "technical" differences with airplanes, which "dash number of engines" - or "maximum certificated gross weight"...
xxx
Cargo airplanes upper deck windows for me are my question, everyone of the airlines with cargo airplanes got different configurations, some with the 10 windows, some with just 1 or 2, some with a claustrophobic "none of them".
xxx
Thank you for mentioning these old 200s... probably all of them are in the deserts right now, dont see too many of them.
Happy contrails -
(s) Skipper


User currently offlineAJ From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 2386 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1418 times:

B747skipper, I'm a bit disappointed that you misspelt Qantas.
VH-EBA was the first B747-200 delivered with ten upper deck windows:

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Photo © Eduard Marmet

Internally the upper deck was also larger by 6', to 25'.


User currently offlineB747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1417 times:

Dear AJ - I am tired, and must not be my day today ---
xxx
Yes the first time I saw this - they called it the "internally extended" upper deck - confused me... actually it gives room for extra row of seats... QF (did I write QF correctly  Wink/being sarcastic made their airplanes often different than most, i.e. the lower lobe (belly) galley -
xxx
Here Argentina we had ex VH-EBA for a while on lease, here "LV-WYT", but no more galley in the belly, still was a nice airplane despite its 30 years of age... When it got sold and went to Aeromar Santo Domingo, I stayed a few weeks JUL 2001, with that airplane to qualify their crews, but I understand the plane ended in Europe (Sweden)... That aircraft had 97,000 hours total time...
xxx
(s) Skipper


User currently offlineAJ From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 2386 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1414 times:

Yes, she went from Qantas to Air Lanka (lsd GPA)
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Photo © Ralph Kunadt

, back to Qantas (lsd AFHKL) of to Norton for storage with AAR Aviation Trading,
TWA
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Photo © Guido Latz


Aerolineas
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Photo © Jose Francisco Gouvea V. Filho


Aeromar
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Photo © Ariel Shocron


and finally in storage with Transjet
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Photo © Konstantin von Wedelstaedt



User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1403 times:

Skipper, to answer about the 727-100 and -200, the -200 is longer (making the -100 look decidedly stubby in comparison).
Other than that, I'd be hard pressed to find major external differences that are quickly visible.




I wish I were flying
User currently offlineB747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1378 times:

Yep the 727-200 is longer - I hope I know that - was the first airplane I got to be captain on...
 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
(s) Skipper


User currently offlineB747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1273 times:

Differences 727-100 and 200 -
xxx
When facing them (unable to see how long the fuselage is) we identified a 100 by looking at an "oval" engine air intake for the #2 engine, whereas for 200 the intake was a circle...
xxx
Outside, besides "how long the fuselage is" there is a "mid fuselage door" on the RH side of the fuselage in the 100 (mid galley door) - and the 200 has doors located just in front of #1 and #3 engines...
xxx
In the cockpit, the flaps lever of the 100 permitted selection of flaps 30 and flaps 40 for landing... in the 200, the flap handle was limited to flaps 30 with restriction for flaps 40 (yet we could possibly select flaps 40 with electrical switches on overhead panel) -
xxx
(s) Skipper


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