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What Happened To The MLS (Microwave Landing Sys)?  
User currently offlineRadarbeam From Canada, joined Mar 2002, 1310 posts, RR: 4
Posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7028 times:

Hey folks,

I've got a 1992 book at home about navigation instruments, it goes in great details about the ADF, VOR, RMI ...ect and there is even a small chapter on the MLS. Here's a quote from the book: "The ICAO decided that the MLS would start to replace the ILS in the year 2000".

So what ever happened to the MLS? AFAIK I've never heard of an airport being equipped by one. It does look like a good alternative for airport surrounded by terrain where an ILS can't be set up.

Thanks,
Radarbeam

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBuckfifty From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1316 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6975 times:

In '99 BA said they'd be the first airline to equip all their aircraft with MLS receiver units, pending the installation of a system at Heathrow. Haven't heard much about it since, though.

Just learned about this last week as part of my ATPL subjects. Apparently, fog affects operations at Heathrow up to 360 hours per year. It reduces operations to 22 movements per hour using CAT IIIB ILS, because of interference due to taxying aircraft affecting accuracy of the ILS system. With the implementation of MLS, it'll increase that number to 29, compared to about 42 movements per hour on a normal basis.

But I'd like to hear if anything's happened to that at all, it'll be interesting to see those approach plates...


User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6881 times:

Last I herad, projected capabilities of future GPS systems would allow all of the capabilities that MLS would've without the very expensive equipment. I've never seen a real MLS approach plate, I'm not sure if one even exists.

User currently offlineAccidentally From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 643 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 6852 times:
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User currently offlineWoodreau From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1031 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 6849 times:

Chicago O'Hare used to have a MLS approach. I have seen the approach plate for it, but the approach (and the accompanying approach plate) has been deleted.

MLS was supposed to replace ILS, the capabilities of MLS over ILS were a 3D approach allowing multiple categories of aircraft to conduct the approach over different flight paths, versus the single straight in. It would also allow aircraft different glidepaths as well. MLS also included a data link which would give incoming aircraft runway status, weather, etc.

Development of MLS was further along in Europe than in the US. The FAA decided to abandon development of MLS after GPS arrived on scene, so MLS what few MLS approaches there are will be gone by 2010.

There is more info in the AIM. http://www1.faa.gov/atpubs/AIM/Chap1/aim0101.html#1-1-11

Cheers  Smile
Woodreau





Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
User currently offlineBuckfifty From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1316 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 6824 times:

But apparently, there are also problems with GPS systems development. In fact, the usage of ILS has been extended indefinitely by the FAA (originally to be phased out by 2010, along with a reduction of VOR aids), just because GPS aided precision approaches has proven not to be all that it's promised (DGPS apparently cannot cut the mustard in it's current form).

Until the U.S. Military decides to release encoding for the more accurate GPS, I don't think this situation will change at all. And knowing what the current political climate is out there, I don't think that's ever going to happen.

And from what I just heard, Heathrow is indeed putting in the MLS...


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 6821 times:

GPS killed MLS.

That being said, The FAA as late as 1996 was installing MLS landing systems at airports. The money had been appropriated 10 years before but nobody cancelled the project. Those systems have now pretty much been retired due to nobody buying MLS equiptment.

What a waste of Tax Dollars.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlinePW4084 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 6787 times:

MLS exists in military aviation, there's an MLS approach at KDYS and some strategic airlift have MLS capability (don't know about the other types).


PW4084



PS.......Buckfifty: I think the Department of Defense took away Selective Availability maybe a year or more ago. Can't remember the exact date.


User currently offlineAvioniker From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1109 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (11 years 7 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6705 times:

The USAF was working on and developing MLS with the FAA and a couple of universities in 1979 and later, but the politics were overwhelming. Europe was developing a system with AEG Telefunken which, at the time, was vastly superior to ILS.
The system the US was fostering and trying to ram down everyone's throats was a Motorola based system using a significantly different frequency/pulse rate spectrum. The US government wanted their home based companies to be the prime vendors. The problems with the Motorola based system weren't overcome and never approached the AEG system before Honeywell and others got the ILS to be as accurate as the MLS was in 1990.
Therefore and voila, the US didn't continue, or contribute significantly to the MLS development as the ILS had become just as accurate as the MLS at that time. (Why develop new technology that wasn't any better than existing if it wasn't really needed?)
Oh yeah, GPS is a lot more accurate (potentially) than either (or will be whenever we figure out how to overcome that pesky 400millisecond lag).



One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
User currently offlineIllini_152 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1000 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (11 years 7 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6688 times:

PW4084, they turned off SA back in 4th quarter of 1999. Now that WAAS is coming online, it's pretty pointless anyway.

- Mike



Happy contrails - I support B747Skipper and Jetguy
User currently offlinePW4084 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (11 years 7 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6687 times:

Thanks Mike, I didn't realize it has been that long. I do remember that the only real change in accuracy that I've noticed while using our Magellan Skynav 5000 (strictly VFR type stuff) since SA went away is that the altitude calculation seems much more accurate. Our lateral nav requirements aren't precise enough to notice a change. Obviously when it comes to precision approaches or bombs on target, the extra bit of accuracy makes a considerable difference.


Dan


User currently offlineJgore From Argentina, joined Feb 2002, 550 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (11 years 7 months 5 days ago) and read 6581 times:

As far as I know, most aircraft carriers have MLS systems onboard because of the precision required while the ship is moving on.

Jgore  Smile


User currently offlineRadarbeam From Canada, joined Mar 2002, 1310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (11 years 7 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6564 times:

Thank you guys for all the infos!

Radarbeam


User currently offlineGotairbus From Singapore, joined May 2001, 851 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (11 years 7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6544 times:

Woodreau

MLS was supposed to replace ILS, the capabilities of MLS over ILS were a 3D approach allowing multiple categories of aircraft to conduct the approach over different flight paths, versus the single straight in. It would also allow aircraft different glidepaths as well. MLS also included a data link which would give incoming aircraft runway status, weather, etc.


Um...is it true that Kai Tak had this 3D navigational approach system (MLS) that help pilots guide their way into Runway 13 (the curved approach)?

(gotAirbus?)



(gotAIRBUS?) - (Got Commonality?) - (Have A Nice Flight!)
User currently offlineTrent_800 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2002, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (11 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6475 times:

Another problem with the MLS is the fact that, on approach everyone onboard started getting hotter and hotter  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Also the airlines couldent decide where to put the speaker that goes "PING" when the aircraft has come to a stop the the doors open.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Dan


User currently offlineMuddydawg From Portugal, joined Jan 2003, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (11 years 7 months 2 hours ago) and read 6423 times:

MLS exists on the C-17. I don't figure that they use it or it is so awesome it never breaks.

User currently offlineGotairbus From Singapore, joined May 2001, 851 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (11 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6405 times:

Trent_800

Another problem with the MLS is the fact that, on approach everyone onboard started getting hotter and hotter. Also the airlines couldent decide where to put the speaker that goes "PING" when the aircraft has come to a stop the the doors open.
Dan


ROTFLOL! Where did you get your education from  Big thumbs up



Oh, and sorry, I thought MLS was implemented as airport radar...mistook it for something.

Please disregard my previous post

(gotAirbus?)



(gotAIRBUS?) - (Got Commonality?) - (Have A Nice Flight!)
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (11 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6436 times:

And there was that problem with the cats in the cargo hold.

They kept exploding everytime the damm thing was switched on.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
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