Radarbeam From Canada, joined Mar 2002, 1310 posts, RR: 5 Posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5613 times:
Hey folks,
I've got a 1992 book at home about navigation instruments, it goes in great details about the ADF, VOR, RMI ...ect and there is even a small chapter on the MLS. Here's a quote from the book: "The ICAO decided that the MLS would start to replace the ILS in the year 2000".
So what ever happened to the MLS? AFAIK I've never heard of an airport being equipped by one. It does look like a good alternative for airport surrounded by terrain where an ILS can't be set up.
Buckfifty From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1314 posts, RR: 21 Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5559 times:
In '99 BA said they'd be the first airline to equip all their aircraft with MLS receiver units, pending the installation of a system at Heathrow. Haven't heard much about it since, though.
Just learned about this last week as part of my ATPL subjects. Apparently, fog affects operations at Heathrow up to 360 hours per year. It reduces operations to 22 movements per hour using CAT IIIB ILS, because of interference due to taxying aircraft affecting accuracy of the ILS system. With the implementation of MLS, it'll increase that number to 29, compared to about 42 movements per hour on a normal basis.
But I'd like to hear if anything's happened to that at all, it'll be interesting to see those approach plates...
Flyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5465 times:
Last I herad, projected capabilities of future GPS systems would allow all of the capabilities that MLS would've without the very expensive equipment. I've never seen a real MLS approach plate, I'm not sure if one even exists.
Accidentally From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 636 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5436 times:
Woodreau From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 890 posts, RR: 7 Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5433 times:
Chicago O'Hare used to have a MLS approach. I have seen the approach plate for it, but the approach (and the accompanying approach plate) has been deleted.
MLS was supposed to replace ILS, the capabilities of MLS over ILS were a 3D approach allowing multiple categories of aircraft to conduct the approach over different flight paths, versus the single straight in. It would also allow aircraft different glidepaths as well. MLS also included a data link which would give incoming aircraft runway status, weather, etc.
Development of MLS was further along in Europe than in the US. The FAA decided to abandon development of MLS after GPS arrived on scene, so MLS what few MLS approaches there are will be gone by 2010.
Buckfifty From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1314 posts, RR: 21 Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5408 times:
But apparently, there are also problems with GPS systems development. In fact, the usage of ILS has been extended indefinitely by the FAA (originally to be phased out by 2010, along with a reduction of VOR aids), just because GPS aided precision approaches has proven not to be all that it's promised (DGPS apparently cannot cut the mustard in it's current form).
Until the U.S. Military decides to release encoding for the more accurate GPS, I don't think this situation will change at all. And knowing what the current political climate is out there, I don't think that's ever going to happen.
And from what I just heard, Heathrow is indeed putting in the MLS...
L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29350 posts, RR: 62 Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5405 times:
GPS killed MLS.
That being said, The FAA as late as 1996 was installing MLS landing systems at airports. The money had been appropriated 10 years before but nobody cancelled the project. Those systems have now pretty much been retired due to nobody buying MLS equiptment.
What a waste of Tax Dollars.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
Avioniker From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1109 posts, RR: 11 Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5289 times:
The USAF was working on and developing MLS with the FAA and a couple of universities in 1979 and later, but the politics were overwhelming. Europe was developing a system with AEG Telefunken which, at the time, was vastly superior to ILS.
The system the US was fostering and trying to ram down everyone's throats was a Motorola based system using a significantly different frequency/pulse rate spectrum. The US government wanted their home based companies to be the prime vendors. The problems with the Motorola based system weren't overcome and never approached the AEG system before Honeywell and others got the ILS to be as accurate as the MLS was in 1990.
Therefore and voila, the US didn't continue, or contribute significantly to the MLS development as the ILS had become just as accurate as the MLS at that time. (Why develop new technology that wasn't any better than existing if it wasn't really needed?)
Oh yeah, GPS is a lot more accurate (potentially) than either (or will be whenever we figure out how to overcome that pesky 400millisecond lag).
One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
Illini_152 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1000 posts, RR: 2 Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5272 times:
PW4084, they turned off SA back in 4th quarter of 1999. Now that WAAS is coming online, it's pretty pointless anyway.
- Mike
Happy contrails - I support B747Skipper and Jetguy
PW4084 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 291 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5271 times:
Thanks Mike, I didn't realize it has been that long. I do remember that the only real change in accuracy that I've noticed while using our Magellan Skynav 5000 (strictly VFR type stuff) since SA went away is that the altitude calculation seems much more accurate. Our lateral nav requirements aren't precise enough to notice a change. Obviously when it comes to precision approaches or bombs on target, the extra bit of accuracy makes a considerable difference.
Gotairbus From Singapore, joined May 2001, 851 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5128 times:
Woodreau
MLS was supposed to replace ILS, the capabilities of MLS over ILS were a 3D approach allowing multiple categories of aircraft to conduct the approach over different flight paths, versus the single straight in. It would also allow aircraft different glidepaths as well. MLS also included a data link which would give incoming aircraft runway status, weather, etc.
Um...is it true that Kai Tak had this 3D navigational approach system (MLS) that help pilots guide their way into Runway 13 (the curved approach)?
(gotAirbus?)
(gotAIRBUS?) - (Got Commonality?) - (Have A Nice Flight!)
Trent_800 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2002, 136 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5059 times:
Another problem with the MLS is the fact that, on approach everyone onboard started getting hotter and hotter Also the airlines couldent decide where to put the speaker that goes "PING" when the aircraft has come to a stop the the doors open.
Dan
Gotairbus From Singapore, joined May 2001, 851 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4989 times:
Trent_800
Another problem with the MLS is the fact that, on approach everyone onboard started getting hotter and hotter. Also the airlines couldent decide where to put the speaker that goes "PING" when the aircraft has come to a stop the the doors open.
Dan
ROTFLOL! Where did you get your education from
Oh, and sorry, I thought MLS was implemented as airport radar...mistook it for something.
Please disregard my previous post
(gotAirbus?)
(gotAIRBUS?) - (Got Commonality?) - (Have A Nice Flight!)
L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29350 posts, RR: 62 Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5020 times:
And there was that problem with the cats in the cargo hold.
They kept exploding everytime the damm thing was switched on.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
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From Canada, joined Mar 2002, 1310 posts, 
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Also the airlines couldent decide where to put the speaker that goes "PING" when the aircraft has come to a stop the the doors open. 
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