Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Crosswindy Landings (?)  
User currently offlineCrazyboi From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 155 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 years 10 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3050 times:

I'm curious about the dangers of landing in windy weather.

On several occassions my flights have landed in severe crosswinds and the aircraft fuselage has swung from side to side as the pilots try to straighten out. The swinging feeling is, of course, exaggerated at the front and rear of the fuselage.

I'm wondering a) how the pilots straighten out the aircraft in such severe wind conditions; b) how dangerous it is to land in such a manner and whether it's possible to lose control; and c) do the aircraft tires immediately grip the runway on touchdown or is there a possibility for, say, hydroplaning from side to side in wet conditions?


Cheers!



This is the time. And this is the record of the time.
19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5615 posts, RR: 28
Reply 1, posted (11 years 10 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3037 times:

1. Unless the winds are very extreme, it is not at all dangerous to land in crosswind conditions; simply requires application of the proper technique;

2. Generally speaking, a pilot turns an airplane by banking in the direction he wants to turn; on a crosswind approach, you bank the aircraft into the wind- in the direction you want to "turn" to align your direction of travel with the runway and avoid the wind blowing you off of the runway centerline; then you use the rudder to line up the airplane (and landing gear) with the runway. You'll typically touch down on the "upwind" wheel first, then the other main gear, then the nose wheel. I used to be intimidated by crosswind landings; they are just an additional challenege, and sorta fun.

3. Old rule: don't stop "flying" the airplane until you tie it down. After touch down, the aerodynamic forces continue to act on the airplane, and the control surfaces continue to affect the airplane's path. Thus, you can (and must) continue to compensate for the wind while you roll out and decelerate, and the wind should not ever "blow you off" the runway.

If the wind is strong enough that it is difficult or impossible to control the plane on the ground, of course, you should not be landing there!

Hope this helps.



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4229 posts, RR: 37
Reply 2, posted (11 years 10 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2933 times:

Large aircraft like the ones you have been on generaly only use rudder to straighten the fusalage out just before touchdown. If they were to dip the upwind wing as is done in lighter aircraft, it could cause an engine or wing strike. Large aircraft have so much momentum that the wing dip doesnt have as much effect.


Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6206 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (11 years 10 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2925 times:

Some transport aircraft actually have wheels that can be positioned so that the airplane can land while crabbed (pointed) into the wind.

For light aircraft, there are two schools of thought on the crosswing landing:

1. Wing low method - Basically, the airplane sideslips to a landing by banking into the wind and using rudder to keep the longitudinal axis (the imaginary line running from the nose to the tail) aliged with the centerline of the runway. You don't have to make any radical, last minute changes to the attitude of the aircraft as you round out; you can simply make small adjustments to the aileron and rudder inputs as the strength of the wind changes near the touchdown zone. The drawback is that you're in uncoordinated flight and it's not as comfortable for the passengers.

2. Crabbed method- With the wings in a level attitude, the longitudinal axis of the airplane is pointed into the wind to compensate for the drift. You can maintain coordinated flight, but you have to transition quickly to a wing low method as you get closer to the runway, or else you'll touch down without the longitudinal axis aligned with the runway, and you'll sideswipe the landing gear and possibly go off the runway.


Crosswind landings and gusty winds can definitely be a challenge. Incorrect technique could result in damage to the landing gear and loss of control. Airplanes can definitely hydroplane when the runway is wet; there is a formula to compute the speed at which the airplane hydroplanes, but I don't remember what it is. It's a function of the aircraft weight and tire pressure. I won't even get into the discussion about taildraggers, but these beasts are definitely in a category of their own when it comes to handling the wind.



Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4229 posts, RR: 37
Reply 4, posted (11 years 10 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2894 times:

FYI- I only teach what Jhooper describes as the "crabbed method." I believe it to be very dangerous and unstable to fly an aircraft anylonger than you have to in a side slip. I have them fly the airplane all the way down to the flare in crab (besides, when you get below the trees the wind changes anyways), and position the rudder to point the nose down the center line, and drop the upwind wing just enough to keep them tracking down the centerline.

Works like a charm and is much more stable than coming in with a wing dip from a higher altitude.



Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offline411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (11 years 10 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2873 times:

Different strokes for different folks.

Some may be interested in knowing that the Lockheed TriStar uses the upwind wing down/opposite rudder during automatic landings, with excellent results, even in 35 knot direct crosswinds (dry runway).
The same method is recommended for manual landings as well.
Works good. Smile


User currently offlineCrazyboi From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (11 years 10 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2842 times:

Wow, folks, thanks for all of the info!

I figured that there was a specific touchdown technique for crosswind landings, but I wasn't sure. I've often found myself rather anxious with that 'out of control' feeling when landing in such conditions.


Cheers!



This is the time. And this is the record of the time.
User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6206 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (11 years 10 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2831 times:

Remember, in a right crosswind, the wind will strike the tail, causing it to tend to veer right. It will weathervane into the wind. Conversely, in a left crosswind, the plane will tend to veer left.


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineOE-LDA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 10 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2804 times:

Every aircraft has a so called "maximum demonstrated crosswind component" which means that this is the strongest crosswind the plane has been landed in so far. This gives an indication how much corsswind an aircraft type can handle, but it must be kept in mind that this number was demostrated by an experienced pilot (most probably the test pilot), so most of us will not be able to reproduce this number.


Regards, OE-LDA


User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 10 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2797 times:

I experienced a crosswind landing recently a couple of weeks ago. We were coming into GPT, and it was windy outside. We were swerving back and forth, and side to side. Finally, we touched down on the left main first, then the right main, and then the nose. Then the captain applied FULL Reverse Thrust.


User currently offlineCx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6639 posts, RR: 55
Reply 10, posted (11 years 10 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2715 times:

How to execute a perfect crosswind landing, by NCA.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Colin Parker
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Colin Parker




View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Colin Parker
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Colin Parker



User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (11 years 10 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2654 times:

Good stuff, but I'd say that THIS ONE takes the cake!  Big grin

[Edited 2003-02-24 05:01:15]

User currently offlineToner From United States of America, joined Feb 2003, 268 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2504 times:

Both techniques are acceptable. I prefer the crab method, myself.

Carrier landings are strange. The direction and speed of the ship, is the wind, as the ship always steers into the wind for recovery, but the angled deck is to the left, which makes for a right crosswind.


User currently offlineIllini_152 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1000 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2481 times:

Of course, it depends on what you're flying.

Most of the time I'll fly final in a crab, and transition to a slip while in the flare (this is in light GA singles and such). Of course, this is mainly for passenger comfort, there should be no danger in flying in a side slip, provided you don't stall the airplane, of course (or you're not low on fuel or something... not that I've never had the low fuel lights go off in a new skyhawk because of a prolonged forward slip and minimum fuel on board, no, never...) Some planes though, this doesn't work too well in.

The Cub is a good example. When flying her from the back seat, it is useful to fly final in a forward slip, just so you can see where you're landing, or in some cases, to see what kind of wildlife is on your runway. Again, transitioning to a side slip in the flare (or it will get REAL interesting REAL fast).

I've read that many WWII fighters didn't even bother flying final for this reason (not being able to see infront) but flew a descending turn from downwind to flare.

--
Mike O'Malley



Happy contrails - I support B747Skipper and Jetguy
User currently offlineToner From United States of America, joined Feb 2003, 268 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2472 times:

I instructed for 3 years in VT-1, flying T-34's at NAAS Saufley, Pensacola. Primary and basic.

Man, let me tell you, I saw them all.

Good boys, all of them. X winds caused the most problems.


User currently offlineYikes! From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 284 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2294 times:

You computer based pilots (i.e. MS Flt Sim or Whatever) are on your own.

Nobody ever learns on this site...

aka

BUFF


User currently offlineWing From Turkey, joined Oct 2000, 1575 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2260 times:

Aircraft with wing mounted engines like 737 crabbing into the wind is the prefered method of crosswind landing.You put the nose of the aircraft into the wind,and keep it until touchdown,it is also important to keep a good power menagement.As you touch down the throttle comes to idle and nose apply very gentle rudder(if necessary)to keep the centerline.Put nose down quickly (but not hard) apply reverse and brakes.


Widen your world
User currently offlineDC-10 Levo From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 3432 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2253 times:

That video posted by ConcordeBoy is scary.

Here's some more shots of crosswind landings:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Radomir Zaric
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ad Vercruijsse



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michal Buciak
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alexander Jonsson



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter Unmuth - Vienna Aviation Photography



And my favourite:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Gary Watt



DC-10


User currently offlineGoboeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2725 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2185 times:

Buff!!! You're back! Stellar.

I like crosswind landings; the strongest crosswind component I landed in during my private pilot lessons was 14kts. It's fun after a bunch of no wind landings, and it makes the calm days even easier.

I don't remember seeing anything above about taildraggers and crosswind landings, but if there's anything about the technique in those, can anyone explain it? I'm now in the midst of flying Grob G-109 motorgliders and soon I will be doing a few flights in the Mudry Cap-10B aerobatic plane. Both of these aircraft are taildraggers.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tom Hildreth




Nick


User currently offlineWietse From Netherlands, joined Oct 2001, 3809 posts, RR: 55
Reply 19, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2248 times:

Perfect example of the crabbed method:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Wietse de Graaf



Wietse



Wietse de Graaf
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Crosswindy Landings (?)
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Maximum Take Offs Or Landings posted Sun Jan 21 2007 17:28:16 by Readytotaxi
Electric Brakes And Deadstick Landings posted Fri Dec 8 2006 06:47:44 by WingedMigrator
SAS Trials "green Landings" posted Thu Nov 9 2006 02:41:23 by Starlionblue
No Flaps Landings... posted Wed Nov 1 2006 20:19:13 by UsAirways16bwi
Emergency Landings posted Wed Aug 23 2006 05:04:41 by Ammunition
Tire RPM's For Takeoff-landings posted Tue Aug 15 2006 19:21:09 by 747LUVR
Cabin Lights During Night Flights (T/O & Landings) posted Fri Mar 31 2006 23:39:30 by Stealth777
Lo-vis Landings: If The Runway Were Wider? posted Wed Mar 15 2006 19:20:37 by Timz
Downwind Landings... posted Sun Jan 8 2006 10:22:51 by Jafa39
#1 Cause Of Gear Up Landings posted Thu Dec 1 2005 04:28:48 by Flyf15

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format