Bigphilnyc From United States, joined Jan 2002, 4006 posts, RR: 63 Posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2484 times:
Most shocking news of the year: I love planes.
I would really enjoy getting into a career in aviation in some capacity. I don't, however, have any interest in being a pilot or a mechanic.
What are other fields in aviation that you think I might be interested in?
What do I need to study to get into this positions? Should I work my way up from the ticket counter or something?
I just want some basic advice from people who know.
FYI: I have a background in corporate sales and online marketing. I am currently back in school studying theater, and I have excellent people and writing skills.
Ikarus From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 3524 posts, RR: 3 Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2444 times:
Cabin crew. You can improve your acting skills by smiling at whining and shouting passengers, you can put your marketing skills to good use by convincing them to buy perfumes they neither afford nor have any need for, and your people skills will be needed each and every day...
Avioniker From United States, joined Dec 2001, 1098 posts, RR: 17 Reply 2, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2429 times:
You might also try dispatching. This will allow you to learn weather observation and forecasting to some degree, all the airways systems, the essentials of the aircraft systems and engines, theory of flight, and best of all you'll have to get good at lying, wheedling, and begging the pilots to go where you want, when you want, even when they don't want (this will really be helpful when you have teenagers of your own)...
At the end of your schooling the instructors will have convinced you that you know much more than any of the aircrews you're sending on their way, the maintenance guys telling you why you can't have the plane when you want it and that you are handsome (beautiful) beyond compare...
Actually there are a number of excellent opportunities for people who don't want to drive or make no money fixing.
Go to any of the aviation school websites (Embry Riddle, Daniel Webster and too many others) and look at the subjects and majors available to study.
I definitely do not recommend working your way up from the ticket counter. That can be a trap where you'll be hearing all manner of gossip and "war stories" that could either steer you into some career path or scare you out of it all together.
I started by pumping gas to pay for lessons, advanced to helping with the maintenance, installing 8-Tracks in small planes, smashing bags, herding passengers, driving, getting a big owie, dispatching, and finally back to fixing and instructing. I'm addicted and admit it. I'll never be rich but looking out over this great land from way up there is something I'm sure I'll never get enough of.
(This post submitted mostly tongue-in-cheek by a former all-of-the-above)
One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
Olympic A-340 From United States, joined Apr 2000, 780 posts, RR: 15 Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2329 times:
Positive rate From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 2143 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2324 times:
I'm curious about the dispatch role. What sort of qualifications do you need to get into that? I'm sure different airlines have different requirements, but what are the basic requirements?
Avioniker From United States, joined Dec 2001, 1098 posts, RR: 17 Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2241 times:
Dispatchers, like everyone else, get paid according to the size of the company and the strength of their union.
My first job (in the dark do it by pencil days) paid $19K. I was making 24 for a major freight hauler in 1979 before I went back into my tool box. I know of some now making in excess of $65K with a major carrier. I'm sure that a lead or chief dispatcher can make considerably more with seniority.
One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
Avioniker From United States, joined Dec 2001, 1098 posts, RR: 17 Reply 10, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2223 times:
The military uses Airfield assigned dispatchers but all airlines are required to have them on staff to route the aircraft and provide the aircrews with flight plan, weather and other needed information.
Here's an extract from FAR part 65:
65.57 Experience or training requirements.
An applicant for an aircraft dispatcher certificate must present documentary evidence satisfactory to the Administrator that he or she has the experience prescribed in paragraph (a) of this section or has accomplished the training described in paragraph (b) of this section as follows:
(a) A total of at least 2 years experience in the 3 years before the date of application, in any one or in any combination of the following areas:
(1) In military aircraft operations as a --
(i) Pilot;
(ii) Flight navigator; or
(iii) Meteorologist.
(2) In aircraft operations conducted under part 121 of this chapter as --
(i) An assistant in dispatching air carrier aircraft, under the direct supervision of a dispatcher certificated under this subpart;
(ii) A pilot;
(iii) A flight engineer; or
(iv) A meteorologist.
(3) In aircraft operations as --
(i) An Air Traffic Controller; or
(ii) A Flight Service Specialist.
(4) In aircraft operations, performing other duties that the Administrator finds provide equivalent experience.
(b) A statement of graduation issued or revalidated in accordance with § 65.70(b) of this part, showing that the person has successfully completed an approved aircraft dispatcher course.
One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
CactusA319 From United States, joined Jan 2000, 2916 posts, RR: 38 Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2186 times:
There are some specialized schools that offer flight dispatch courses that last about 6 weeks. It'll run you somewhere around $3K but you leave with your certificate and possibly an airline job right out of school. Not sure what, if any, of these schools are in the New York area.
Kohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2175 times:
I left other career paths to try dispatching - in fact, I posted a message about 3 1/2 years ago that was a lot like some in this thread and I was fortunate enough to get the great support that led to my decision to go to dispatch school.
Dispatching is a great job.. no doubt. The one thing I must say though, to temper any possible irrational enthusiasm, is that times have changed significantly in even just the few years I've been doing this. Frankly, we're not seeing the kind of hiring that we saw a while back. Majors aren't hiring from the regionals and only a handful of regionals are hiring from the street. The other trend is the hiring of dispatchers from within a company.. people that have their licenses that are familiar with company procedures.
That having been said, it's definitely not impossible to start a career as a dispatcher.. there are still openings out there.. you just may not get the kind of start that you're looking for - you may have to work as a flight follower at a bizjet outfit or as a dispatcher at a small regional before you end up at a larger regional and then onto a major (but there's definitely no guarantee about that last move). If your goal is to work for Southwest or Delta, then any job in the company will do, as they only hire from within. Like I said, this is a trend in the industry and I wouldn't be surprised to see even more companies head that direction as time goes on...
Bruce From United States, joined May 1999, 4949 posts, RR: 28 Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2106 times:
Well, suppose you get a job on the ramp with an airline, and then you decide to go get your license. That's a 6 week full time course, so you would need to leave your job for 6 weeks. I wonder if most airlines would allow an employee to take a leave like that and still have the job when they get back???
bruce
Bruce Leibowitz - Green Bay, WI (GRB/KGRB) - Canon 20D/100-400L IS lens
Bruce From United States, joined May 1999, 4949 posts, RR: 28 Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2102 times:
I've always wondered how airlines can pay their customer-contact people so very little and yet have happy smiling employees greet the passengers. Imagine living on $9/hr in the Bay area???? uhhhhh I dont think so. how can they get the "best" quality workers at that pay? sure stock options are nice but they dont pay the rent!
I have never met a rude flight attendant or gate person. maybe I'm just lucky. but Burger King employees also get rotten pay and I can tell you, I have met some nasty ones!
I guess I'm just not manager-material. I think like the "old school": pay more to get better quality and lasts longer. from the Employees to the mechanic's tools. to be a manager today it seems you have to think only 1 thing: how can i cust costs.
bruce
Bruce Leibowitz - Green Bay, WI (GRB/KGRB) - Canon 20D/100-400L IS lens
CcrlR From United States, joined Aug 2001, 2171 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (6 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2100 times:
Get a job on the ramp, you'll be real close to the planes
What about being a aircraft mechanic? They are near aircraft and they fix them. It's a pretty neat job and it gets you near them just like a ramp worker and you get to taxi them to the hangar, gate, or a remote area(and probably help out tugging them too).
B747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2031 times:
I am a management pilot (instructor) - was ex-Air Force, then spent some 22 years with PanAm until their demise (Captain 707. 727, 747). When PanAm busted in DEC 1991, went overseas as 747 captain, first to Cargolux (the best cargo airline there is), then as training manager 747 in Argentina, and flying their 747 when not in training activities...
xxx
By all means, dispatcher is the best non-pilot position there is (basically, except for "flying" an aircraft, dispatchers are as knowledgeable as pilots as far as the theory of flying and aircraft operations)... the second position is pilot instructor... actually - for me it is either dispatcher - or instructor which I would consider best...
xxx
Forget flight attendant, the worst (maybe) of all airline employment position, especially in USA where minimum qualifications are required, minimum education and low salaries... overseas, flight attendants have better status, and require higher standards of education - and... language abilities...
xxx
I know aviation people in all facets of this industry, such as "marketing managers" (cargo and/or passenger), airline representatives at their various destinations overseas, generally good positions... ticket agents, reservation agents, forget it as well, minimum wages are the rule...
xxx
Talking about maintenance, I understand that the standards are very low now in the USA, car mechanics often paid more than with airlines, so "loving airplanes" is the worst draw back... do not work with airplanes just because you like them, airlines count on that, to hire you and make you accept much low standards of salaries and benefits, again, the worst is in USA...
xxx
While pilots may enjoy high salaries - dispatcher are next in wages, generally a dispatcher with a major airline in the USA will be paid some $30,000 to start and could reach nearly $100,000 by end of career...
xxx
Warning to you - working for the "XYZ Connection" or the "ABC Express" is NOT working for a major airline... these are separate organizations which are notorious for low wages...
xxx
Good luck, happy contrails
(s) Skipper
Ba299 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 173 posts, RR: 6 Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1965 times:
Dispatcher is the best non-pilot work. For my pleasure I got the FAA dispatcher license last year. The dispatcher work in the USA I think is one of the most fun job in the aviation world. I still have some contact with the instructors, they say that the airline in the USA still hire specially the regional airline.
NormalSpeed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1932 times:
Actually, if I wasn't flying, I think I'd like to study the human factors side of aviation as an academic subject--probably go back to school for an advanced degree, and then perhaps teach flying in the collegiate setting. In fact, this is my "plan B."
Aloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 5853 posts, RR: 51 Reply 22, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1917 times:
Sorry if I'm repeating this, but you could also consider working for GE, P&W ar RR as an engine technician - one of those who earn their lives flying around the world repairing damaged engines or replacing them. I got that idea from "How Do They Fix The Damage?" and am considering this as an alternative to my dream of becoming a pilot with LH now... Would be great, too!
B747Skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1909 times:
Dear Goboeing -
xxx
For dispatcher training in USA, check with "Flight Safety Boeing" facility nearest to your home, if I remember another name, is "Sherwood School" or "Sherwood Academy" - the name Sherwood is correct... maybe through 1-800-555-1212 information...
xxx
Training is about 2, possibly near 3 months including testing (consisting of written exam and practical test)... cost is approximately $3,500... could be $4,000 at most...
xxx
Most books and publications cover same material as ATP (Airline Transport Pilot exam) - basically same regulations, same meteorology, same aircraft performance, etc...
xxx
Happy contrails
(s) Skipper
RNOcommctr From United States, joined Jan 2001, 781 posts, RR: 6 Reply 24, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1904 times:
Here's another idea which no one has mentioned yet: working for airport management in air service marketing. Since deregulation in 1978, airports and their communities have had to take on the new role of competing with other airports for airline service. I mention this option because you said you had studied marketing and business. I used to do a bit of this at RNO many years ago and it was fascinating work. You get to know a lot of airline corporate folks, and an awful lot about fleets, airline finances, and route systems. Another advantage of working with a local airport is theoretically more job security: airlines come and go, but the airport will always be there. (Which is not to say that airports aren't also subject to many financial pressures of their own.)
Srbmod From United States, joined Mar 2001, 14238 posts, RR: 62 Reply 25, posted (6 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1885 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
I could say that I in a way, have an aviation-related career right now. I currently work for a company that stocks all of the bookstores and news stands @ATL. Concessionaires are important to aviation too. The lack of shops in an airport make certain airports less popular to fly in/out of, and that can affect what airlines fly there. I still get to feed my love of airplanes, just now I don't have to worry about getting in to bins of them. I get to drive all over the airport, and look at planes as drive. I get to see parts of the airport that even most rampers don't get to see.
Cream cheese is not a vitamin.
26 Kellmark: For some of the best information of dispatching, try the website of the Aircraft Dispatcher's Federation at www.dispatcher.org. This is a professional
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