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Tu-154 Engines  
User currently offlineSovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2598 posts, RR: 17
Posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3059 times:
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Hi, everyone i got another engine question. I thought all Tu-154s except Tu-154M had NK-8s. Is that true? Here I see two Tu-154Bs with differences in their engine nacelles. The tarom one has that ring of little inlets circling the front of the engine(i forgot what those were called) while the Ural one doesn't have them yet both are Tu-154Bs and have different engines at least on the outside. Why is that? Is there any structural differences between the Tu-154A and Tu-154B? How many Tu-154As were produced anyway?

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11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBen From Switzerland, joined Aug 1999, 1391 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2942 times:

Sovietjet,

I know what you are saying about the engine nacelles.. I will try to get you an answer ASAP. I have noticed it too but didnt give it much thought as I dont see the Tu-154B very much these days.

The main structural difference between the Tu-154A and B series (B is a series, there were variants within 'B') is the wing.

Aeroflot put the original Tu-154 into service before the static fatigue tests were complete. The initial test results were good enough to allow it to enter service, but simultaneously the tests continued in the background. At the time there was a big need to replace types like the Il-18, An-10 and Tu-104/124 quickly.

The results from the fatigue tests came back from Novosibirsk and it was clear that the wings were never going to make the number of cycles required (about 20,000 cycles / 30,000 hours in those days).

Here's where is gets a bit difficult to give you a clean answer.

The first 120 were recalled (minus the ones which were destruction tested) to have the new wings fitted. Some of these were not yet delivered.

The production list shows that only the first 40-50 were 'A' models, since while the aircraft were back in the factory the opportunity was taken to upgrade them to B models.

Therefore all A's and some B's were re-winged. A lot of the Tu-154A's were upgraded to B standard according to the production lists.

The only foreign 'non-Aeroflot' customer to operate the Tu-154A was Balkan Bulgarian Airlines (LZ-BTA, BTB, BTC). I believe these were all upgraded at some time. Some production lists disagree with that point.

The only external difference is a small 'point' with the tail. See the following pictures:

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Photo © Urs Ruf - Euro Airport Photography
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Photo © Alastair T. Gardiner


Can you see a difference with these?

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Photo © Luis Rosa
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Photo © Dmitry Avdeev



I know it's a long answer, but I've got nothing else to do while I wait for paperwork from the friggin CAA.


User currently offlineSovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2598 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2916 times:
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Hi Ben yea I know there's different "B" variants by the way how many are they? I think there is 3. B, B-1, and B-2? Any structural differences between those? So you're saying that the first around 120 produced 154s didn't have the new wing? But they were eventually refitted. I get it now. Actually I am Bulgarian and I know lots about the Balkan operations of the Tu-154 I'm proud my country was the only Tu-154A operator outside USSR. In fact Balkan started commercially flying the -154 even before Aeroflot!! Yes, it's true. But I get confused with the whole A, B, B-1, B-2 deal. What are these "points" in specific I can't understand what you're talkin about. Thanks though. If you can answer these questions as well it would be very helpful. I guess the engine nacelle is still a mystery lol. Unless....what if in the pictures I posted the little intake ducts or whatever are closed? Maybe they open inwards and close upwards and it looks like they are not there? Just a guess...

User currently offlinePositive rate From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 2143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2905 times:

What's the thrust rating of the TU-154's NK8 and is it more powerful than a 727's JT8D?

User currently offlineAviastar From Belarus, joined Nov 2000, 280 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2845 times:

The trust rating of the NK8 and JT8D:

**Tu-154B - Three 93.2kN (20,950lb) Kuznetsov NK-82 turbofans.
**Tu-154M - Three 103.6kN (23,380lb) Aviadvigatel (Soloviev) D-30KU-154-II turbofans.

**B-727-200: Three 64.5kN (14,500lb) Pratt & Whitney JT8D-9 turbofans, or 67.2kN (15,000lb) JT8D-11s, or 68.9kN (15,500lb) JT8D-15s or 71.1kN (16,000lb) JT8D-17s (Advanced only), or 77.3kN (17,400lb) JT8D-17Rs (Advanced only).


User currently offlineMASB747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2837 times:

The only external difference is a small 'point' with the tail.

I´m quite sure Ben is referring to that "Javelin-tip"- style pointed thingy protuding from the top of the vertical fin .It´s remarquably thinner on the older "A"-models.


User currently offlineBen From Switzerland, joined Aug 1999, 1391 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2807 times:

MASB747,

Yes, you beat me to it. It's thinner and shorter on 'A' models... and I think your description "Javelin-tip pointed thingy" is better than anything I've come up with so far to describe the tail.

It's one of the things that makes the Tu-154 so cool, in my opinion.

Sovietjet,

There were 3 versions of the Tu-154B. None of them had any structural differences.
Tu-154B (107 aircraft) with lengthened cabin interior.
Tu-154B-1 (70 aircraft) with upgraded avionics.
Tu-154B-2 (307 aircraft) with increased fuel capacity, upgraded engines, and a further avionics update.

All of these small changes could be made to earlier airframes at overhaul time, that's why you will never see a Tu-154B-1 for example. They would have all been upgraded over the years.

By the way, the Tu-154M was a major step-up and you cant make a Tu-154M from a 'B', except for the prototype which was made that way.

Here's something I just found in one of my books.

It says that 58 'basic' Tu-154s were built. Followed by 62 Tu-154As "with upgraded Kuznetsov engines".

The numbers vary depending on which source you use.

That might answer your first question about the engine nacelles. The Tu-154A and B2 both had minor engine upgrades. Could the answer be hidden in there somewhere?



User currently offlineSovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2598 posts, RR: 17
Reply 7, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 2792 times:
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Ben,

You answered a question of mine before I even asked. I was gonna ask if there was just a plain Tu-154 before the A model because on one of your pictures on the nose it's written 'Tu-154" and not "Tu-154A". So I guess that there is a basic Tu-154 before the A model. I think it is possible the upgraded engines is what the answer to my question is. For example(I'm only guessing) the Tu-154B and B-1s didnt have the inlets. When they were upgraded to B-2s they received the inlets? That might sound right but...look at the Tarom Tu-154 the year is 1982 and it has the inlets. The Ural is 2003 and still doesn't have them. Hmmmm.... I'm lookin through my books as well but I can't seem to find an answer. Why don't we just e-mail the Tupolev bureau? lol. We think the Tu-154s are confusing don't get me started on Tu-134s and their A, A-3, B and B-3 models along with the basic one. That's a big mess....


User currently offlineBen From Switzerland, joined Aug 1999, 1391 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 2733 times:

Sovietjet,

I wouldnt put too much emphasis on the date the photo was taken.

If you really want to try and track down the answer and you've got a bit of time on your hands, you can supply me with the registrations of a load of Tu-154s with the unusual nacelles and ones without. I will then be able to compare the registrations/serial numbers with my various production lists.

You are right about the Tu-134! To make it even harder, the story goes something like: During the cold war, the KGB were very surprised to discover how much some western number crunching plane spotting 'enthusiasts' knew about their aviation industry (factory numbers, production rates, batch numbers etc). So they deliberately stirred up the system for allocating serial, model and registration numbers to aircraft. This mainly affected the Tu-134 as other types are fairly logical in their reg/serial allocation system.

The result is a very chaotic and possibly inaccurate production list for the Tu-134.

Generally, serial numbers are in the format: 1.Factory number, 2.Batch number 3.Individual number within batch. Usually (Tu-134 included) there are 10 aircraft per batch.



User currently offlineSovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2598 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2747 times:
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Ben,

I will try to give u registrations I have about 2500 pics on my comp plus lots of books so I'll do that, I'll try to get it by Friday because I have school and work so I don't have much free time. I know a production list website but I don't know if it's accurate.
http://www.aerotransport.org/


User currently offlineSovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2598 posts, RR: 17
Reply 10, posted (11 years 3 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2661 times:
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Ben,

I think I solved it. Check this out. All three pictures are of the Balkan Tu-154A(later B) LZ-BTA the first commercially operated Tu-154. It has been upgraded to a B in these pics. On the first pic in Berlin, the inlets are visible. On the other two pics, they are not. The aircraft is the same and the one WITH the inlets is the oldest one which means that the plane in the next two MUST have them, leading to one conclusion. The inlets open and close inwards like the engines on the B-707. That to me is the best explanation. I have pics of Tu-154As in my books with the inlets meaning the inlets were always there since the first Tu-154s. They just open and close.

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Photo © Adrian Thompson



User currently offlineAviastar From Belarus, joined Nov 2000, 280 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (11 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2703 times:

Sovietjet, read also this thread I posted quite a long time ago:
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/342370/4/
there are some explanations about these inlets.

Aviastar


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