COexpress From United States of America, joined May 2001, 32 posts, RR: 0 Posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2123 times:
On one of the IND departure procedures, I saw the term "Closed In" DP. What exactly are they. Another question that I have about DPs in general is the altitudes that are listed on various segments of the DP. Are those altitudes mandatory? They look like an MEA, but I am not sure.
Also, are the altitudes listed on that STARS mandatory also?
Shaun3000 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 445 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2055 times:
If the number is underlined, it's an MEA. If the line is above the number, it's an altitude restriction. If lines above and below, you fly that altitude. That would usually be a block altitude, with the top number being the upper limit, the bottom being the lower limit.
Yes, they are mandatory altitudes if you are flying the published DP or STAR. Mandatory as in you can't decend below (or climb above, as the case may be) the altitude given for a specific segment.
M717 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 608 posts, RR: 5 Reply 2, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2025 times:
Many STARs have altitudes that are "expect" altitudes. For example, an intersection may have beside it "Turbojets expect to cross at 11000 and 250 kts". In this case, this is not a mandatory altitude. It is only for planning purposes. An ATC clearance is required to initiate a descent to this altitude.
COexpress From United States of America, joined May 2001, 32 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2022 times:
the charts that I am referring to are JEPPS. I am looking at a DP for Cincinnati, OH. In the whitewater 3 DP, the segment between the CVG VOR and Brickyard VHP have 10000 for an alt. There is no line around, below, or above this number. Is that alt. manditory? Like I said, these are JEPPS.
I will pose my first question again also: Exactly what is a "Closed IN" DP? I saw this one on the JEPP charts for IND.
Rick767 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 2662 posts, RR: 52 Reply 8, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2005 times:
Not a US pilot so can't really help you here. The full text reads:
NOISE ABATEMENT PROCEDURE (TURBOJETS):
Excess of 75000lbs, Airport Operator requests
the use of "Close-in" departure procedures in
accordance with FAA Advisory Circular 91-53A,
Noise Abatement Departure Profile.
So you need to get your hands on the Circular... Probably something like straight ahead to 3,000ft AAL before level acceleration, 1,500ft for Climb thrust... or something...!
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
M717 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 608 posts, RR: 5 Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1991 times:
I have provided a link to AC-91-53A below if anyone is interested. (On the page, you must click on the Adobe symbol, and the AC opens in PDF format.)
It outlines the recommended procedure for a close-in noise abatement departure procedure. In a nutshell, it recommends reducing power at no less than 800 feet AGL, maintaining the flap/slat config., lowering pitch to prevent the speed from decaying to no less than all engine climb speed -5 kts (but in no case less than V2) while maintaining the minimum climb gradient required. Maintain this power/speed configuration until 3000 feet AGL, then accelerate and clean up. Turns are permitted in accordance with the applicable DP.
M717 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 608 posts, RR: 5 Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2044 times:
We used the same procedure on the 757 at JMC. Here in the states, it depends on the airport. For example, at ATL, they want you to accelerate to 250 kts as soon as possible. Therefore, we accelerate and clean up at 1000 ft AGL. However, at most airports, it is climb power until 3000 ft, then accelerate and clean up.