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Clarification For Flight Instructors And Medicals  
User currently offlineNormalSpeed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 3002 times:

Hey all,

I'm checking in from Boston, my new place of residence. The move went smoothly. I have a quick question about flight instructors and medical certificates. We are all aware that:

-Flight instructors do not need medical certificates to flight instruct, as long as they are not required to be the PIC, i.e. commercial and instrument students.

-If the the flight instructor is required to be the PIC, then only a Class III medical is required.

-Commercial pilots are required to have a Class II medical in order to exercize the priviledges of that certificate, namely to carry persons or property for hire.

My question is: Is a flight instructor allowed to be financially compensated for his or her time when instructing with a Class III medical or none at all?

Thanks in advance for the help,

'Speed

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineOlympic A-340 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 780 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2970 times:

In the back of my memory, I remember an instructor telling me that flight instruction is not considered "commercial" by the FAA. I could be wrong; however, I do believe you can be paid under a third class certificate.

User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2957 times:

Yes, you can be paid when using a third class medical.

 Big thumbs up



09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
User currently offlineSSTjumbo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 2946 times:

hmm??? I thought the validity of a commercial certificate is void unless you have a current second class medical. I could be wrong though. I'll see if I can pry it out of the FAR's.

Cheers
-Mike


User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2925 times:

The FARs aren't real clear on this subject actually. You can certainly instruct with a 3rd class medical, there is no doubt about that. Straight reading of the FARs seems to indicate that you can't get paid for instruction without a 2nd class medical, though I've always been told otherwise. I'm going to call the local FSDO tomorrow and ask them. Sucks that they aren't there on Sundays.

 Big thumbs up



09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
User currently offlineSSTjumbo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 2913 times:

Well, I guess as long as everybody's favorite agency doesn't pick up the scent, anything can go. Heck, if Bonanzas can weave around Cessna's in half mile patterns and get away with it, anything is fair game.

Cheers
-Mike


User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (11 years 4 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2889 times:

Yeah, or 185s blasting around a 120 in the pattern...I almost went off on him for that, but apparently he landed about 6 times on his single full stop pass, so whatever.  Big thumbs up


09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
User currently offlineSushka From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 4784 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (11 years 4 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2883 times:

So I can go all the way to being an instructor with my 3rd class medical? That saves me a little money!
I wonder why all my instructors have 2nd class? Because to pass the Commercial chekcride you need to have at least 3rd class.



Pershoyu Spravoyu Litaki!
User currently offlineNormalSpeed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 4 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2882 times:

"I wonder why all my instructors have 2nd class?"

Sushka,

It's company policy for your (our) school. What the chief pilot told us in the CFI Ground class is that the school wants the student to be able to get at least a second class medical, so they don't invest all that money if they have a disqualifying medical condition. Talk to Steve Smith about it if you need more info... Or just take the CFI ground class from him.

-Normal


User currently offlineSushka From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 4784 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (11 years 4 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2875 times:

Ok, I see thanks.
Im not going to be getting my CFI from there. Im going to be leaving after I get my commercial multi.



Pershoyu Spravoyu Litaki!
User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4200 posts, RR: 37
Reply 10, posted (11 years 4 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2872 times:

We all have 2nd classes at where I work b/c we also do corporate stuff on the side occasionally.


Just think of a commercial certificate as a prerequisite of a CFI certificate, but CFIing isnt a 2nd class operation so you don't need it.



Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlineOlympic A-340 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 780 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (11 years 4 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2853 times:

If I got a second or first class medical but with a medical waiver...could I still be hired for an operation that requires that medical? Or is it like a demerit? (i.e. SODA waiver)

User currently offlineNormalSpeed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 4 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2845 times:

Hey Sushka,

Where are you heading to? Gonna stay in Provo?

-Normal

[Edited 2003-05-20 16:08:19]

User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (11 years 4 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2820 times:

CFIs can instruct with a 3rd class medicals; it is assumed that you'd also be paid for it.


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineNormalSpeed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 4 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2803 times:

Thanks for all the help, everyone. I had assumed that CFIs could be paid without a Class II medical, but a CFI student friend of mine tried to tell me something else. I went digging in the regs, and the matter wasn't any more clear. Then I came here.

-Normal


User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (11 years 4 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2790 times:

I am quoting the following from the AOPA Air Safety Foundation's "Instructor Report" which I just recieved in the mail today.



At the pilot's convention, I mentioned earlier there was an urban legend floating around that you needed a 2nd class medical certificate to teach; some of the instructors there opined that you couldn't accept money for training withouit a 2nd class medical. FAR 61.23(a)(3)(iv) tells that a person must hold at least a 3rd class medical certificate when excercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate if the person is acting as the PIC or serving as a required pilot flight crewmember. A second class medical isn't mentioned, nor is it noted in the eligibility requirements for flight instructors in FAR 61.183. There is no reference to the circumstances under which you cannot accept money for flight instruction.

This myth probably emerged from a seemingly logical thought process that started with the requirement for a 2nd class medical in order to be paid as a commercial pilot or ATP. Since you cannot be a flight instructor without a commercial or ATP certificate, the reasoning goes, you can't accept money without a 2nd class medical. The logic is sound, but it just isn't true. When you instruct, you aren't being paid as a pilot; you're being paid as a teacher.

...... by Richard Hiner

Richard Hiner retired from the AOPA Air Safety Foundation as vice president of training. He can be contacted at hrhiner@comcast.net.



Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
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