JohnnyFitz From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 2 posts, RR: 0 Posted (10 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3700 times:
I fly quite frequently and I thought that I had all of my questions answered. I was landing in San Diego on a B757. I heard the landing gear go down but when I looked out the window I had also noticed that as we were on finals that the flaps were still being lowered.
Hence my question: Is landing gear usually the last activity that takes place before landing, or is there activity in terms of surface movement for flaps, spoilers etc...
M717 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 608 posts, RR: 5 Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3674 times:
On all of the transport jets that I have flown, which include the B757, the flaps are set to an intermediate (approach) setting prior to landing gear extension. After the gear is extended, landing flaps are selected.
In fact, if you select landing flaps without the landing gear being extended, you will get a warning.
The idea is to have the aircraft stabilised on the glideslope in the landing configuration by 1,000ft AAL, which seems pretty close to landing but is actually a perfectly adequate distance from the numbers. In reality if you're not going to make a stabilised configured approach by this point it becomes apparent much sooner than this (been there, done that!).
Exceptions then... if we are approaching into a strong headwind it is prudent to use a reduced flap setting and stick at VRef + 40 with Flap 5 or even Flap 15 for a prolonged period, since it makes no sense to use an excessive thrust setting any longer than necessary on approach in these conditions.
Non-precision approaches (non-ILS) are also an exception but in general the flap / gear / speed schedule will not usually be wildly different to the above, especially if the crew are visual with the runway.
The above "standard" ILS profile is regarded by the company as the best procedure to "save fuel, reduce the approach noise footprint and facilitate the most common ATC speed controls applied at busier airports"
Whether US 757/767 carriers apply the same procedure I don't know... it would be interesting to find out.
In any event M717 correctly pointed out that a landing configuration warning will be generated if we select landing flaps with the gear still up (on the 757/767 "GEAR NOT DOWN" in red on upper EICAS with Master Warning Lights, Configuration Warning Light and an Aural Warning Siren!).
The same occurs even if you don't have landing flap selected and descend below 800ft RA... it is inexcusable to land these planes with the gear up as you would have to endure a good 60 seconds of lights flashing and sirens going off.
Anyway I trust the above profile will help you understand what to expect on your next 757 trip. One unanswered question though...
"What dictates the "angle" needed for landing say a 757?"
Landing Flap angle is dictated by the Performance Manual. In BY we keep it simple, Flap 30 for every landing unless the QRH calls for a lower setting (usually Flap 20) in the event of a malfunction. I think some airlines (like BA) permit a normal Flap 25 landing when runway length is sufficient, but we don't do this ourselves.
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
ThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1635 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 3574 times:
I know that it is a small step for a poster but a giant leap for A.net: you see it all the time here but the correct term is "final" and not "finals". The term come from the phrase "final leg" of a standard traffic pattern. There is an "upwind leg," "crosswind leg," "downwind leg," "base leg," and "final leg". You would no more say "finals" than you would say "bases" or "downwinds" to describe a traffic pattern segment.
Further breakdowns of the term may be used to describe where the aircraft is on the final leg, especially for traffic separation purposes. For example, an aircraft making a long, straight-in approach will be said to be on "long final" or an aircraft about to cross the fence or threshold can be said to be on "short final".
Further uses of the term "final" can be found in IFR operations, such as "final approach fix," but it is always the singular form of the word. It plain makes no sense to say that an aircraft is on "finals".
B747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3532 times:
"Finals" is common way to call the "final approach" in UK aviation vocabulary, there are differences on US-Canada English language...
Many differences, in example "overshoot" in UK is "go-around" in USA...
ThirtyEcho From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1635 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 3485 times:
Clearly, there are differences. It might be fun to have a UK CFI chime in here about this but I doubt that you're ever going to hear "Cessna 123, extend your downwinds to follow the Citation on long finals for 31L," or "Citation 123, best speed on finals, traffic is a Cessna turning wide bases for 31L". Not in my headsets; no siree.
And that Citation better fly some fast finals and expedite his turnoffs.
B747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3442 times:
Dear friends from around the world -
Lets try to allow leniency for regional differences of the English language, as spoken in USA, or UK, or anywhere else in the world, and let us not forget that some among us use English as a second language... spelling also may differ between USA and UK...
When I answer some specific posting from a friend here, I try (as I can) to word it so that he and I understand each other (looking where he is from) - using when I know, the English as it may be spoken by ATC there...
Maybe some do not understand "line up and wait" but are accustomed to hear "position and hold"... who cares really... the question is not "who is correct" - at least in this Tech.Ops forum, we seldom have fights, and the majority of you are extremely friendly and respectful with each other...
Happy contrails, always -
411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 9 Reply 12, posted (10 years 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3424 times:
Skipper has many valid points. Those that are so pedantic really do show their ignorance about aviation matters.
Have flown in the middle east for many years, where many of the ATC folks are from the UK (and USA) and when I say..."standing by for airways clearance"...they know exactly what I want, an IFR clearance. Likewise..."report on extended finals"...a common term.
Flying into LAX several years ago, reported to Socal..."by the old Hollywood fan marker"...and the old bird on ATC knew exactly where I was...told me to turn base at..."the big tank"...a well known point from yesteryear.