JBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4459 posts, RR: 22 Posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2224 times:
I was shocked to learn that a CFI I know from home was fired from his flight school last week for not allowing a Student Pilot to fly a cross country Special VFR (and there was a very wide region of the conditions). I don't know many self-respecting CFI's that would let a pre-private student do this, solo, under ANY circumstance. There's no excuse at all. None.
The flight school has a history of accidents (none fatal, yet, thankfully) -- engine fires, engine failure on takeoff due to selecting an empty tank, and--here's the shocker--a CFIT by a pre-private student flying a cross country under special VFR.
I can't for the life of me figure out why the FAA/NTSB hasn't conducted an investigation into any of the above incidents (except for the CFIT example). If the flight instructor were to sue, would he have any case whatsoever?
Jhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6195 posts, RR: 13 Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2193 times:
Remember, there could be more to it than that. But based solely on the information you provided, that's a pretty sorry reason for firing a CFI. The CFI's legal remedies would likely depend on the state. For example, I believe in Texas an employer can basically fire an employee for any reason whatsoever, or for no reason at all (except for race, religion, gender, vetern status, etc.)
The FAA should certainly investigate. Has anyone spoken w/ the FSDO?
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
JBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4459 posts, RR: 22 Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2165 times:
Jhooper: True, definitely...it all depends on the information.
I'm not sure if anyone has spoken with the local FSDO but I do know (again...rumor and speculation) that pilots in that area are a little intimidated by the owner. The owner in question is rumored to be very "buddy-buddy" with the FSDO guys and no one will speak up in fear of getting "buried"...I can't blame them for that...
Sccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5088 posts, RR: 28 Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2094 times:
SVFR requires IFR rating. No student could do this legally.
Are you sure you're not thinking of marginal VFR?
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
Flyingbronco05 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3838 posts, RR: 3 Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2092 times:
I think im missing something:
I was shocked to learn that a CFI I know from home was fired from his flight school last week for not allowing a Student Pilot to fly a cross country Special VFR (and there was a very wide region of the conditions). I don't know many self-respecting CFI's that would let a pre-private student do this, solo, under ANY circumstance. There's no excuse at all. None.
So the CFI let a pre private pilot solo or he did not let him. I dont follow.
TT737FO From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 472 posts, RR: 9 Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2083 times:
>>>"SVFR requires IFR rating. No student could do this legally."
---YES and NO. An IFR clearance is required for Special-V ONLY AT NIGHT! During daylight hours, a private pilot may request (and receive) a Special-V clearance.
--It is absolutely true, however, that a student pilot is unauthorized to operate under Special-V.
Ralgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6 Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2054 times:
SVFR at night requires an IFR rated and current pilot and an IFR equipped aircraft. It does NOT require an IFR clearance.
Jhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6195 posts, RR: 13 Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2053 times:
Correct, A Special VFR clearance is not an IFR clearance! I do believe, however, that SVFR provides IFR separation.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
TT737FO From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 472 posts, RR: 9 Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2042 times:
My bad, I meant to say IFR rated pilots ONLY can receive SV clearance
Ralgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6 Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2038 times:
Yeah, SVFR is provided with seperation from SVFR and IFR traffic, however, an SVFR clearance request will not be granted if it will delay IFR operations in the area.
L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29349 posts, RR: 62 Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1911 times:
Gettin an IFR clearance kind of defeats the purpose of going Special VFR doesn't it?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
Sllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 7 Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1908 times:
to fly a cross country Special VFR
Unless you've got a quite interesting route of flight, you can't actually fly a cross country route entirely under Special VFR.
L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29349 posts, RR: 62 Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1906 times:
I have heard of it being done. ;-D
But the distances in the Aleutian Islands are vast, and the weather sucks!
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
Jhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6195 posts, RR: 13 Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1907 times:
Yes it does, I would say!
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29349 posts, RR: 62 Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1872 times:
I should add that the usual reason for an SVFR clearance was not because of vis, but because of low ceilings. You have so much more room to manuver when you just have to be clear of clouds.
That and since you where generally following beach, there wasn't too much chance of hitting a mountain when you were over the water.
Of course the guys doing this have been flying the same routes since Otto was flying gliders, so they knew where to go an where not to go.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
Cancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 13 Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1822 times:
SVFR is not only for IFR pilots. Any pilot in any airplane can request and recieve a SVFR clearance, provided the facility that he requests offers SVFR.
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
Minuteman From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 271 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1639 times:
FAR 91.157 says, "special VFR operations may be conducted ... within the airspace contained by the upward extension of the lateral boundaries of the controlled airspace designated to the surface for an airport"
Never tried it, but my understanding was that if you could contact ATC, you could receive SVFR (anywhere, including the non-towered airport 40 miles away from the Class C TRACON). This excerpt makes it sound like it is permitted only within the boundaries established for an airport with controlled airspace at the surface. What's your take?
Ralgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6 Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1635 times:
As the FARs state, SVFR is only permitted inside the confines of the controlled surface area of an airport.
The explaination is fairly straightforward. If an airport does not have controlled airspace to the surface, then the airpace at the surface (and up to the overlying controlled airspace) is class G, uncontrolled. The VFR cloud/vis requirements in day, below 10000 feet, in class G is one mile and clear of clouds. The same as SVFR requirements. Therefore, there is no need for SVFR in uncontrolled airspace.
Another reason is that ATC provides seperation for SVFR-cleared aircraft, and ATC does not provide services in uncontrolled airspace (hence the term "uncontrolled"). This is also why you don't need to file a flight plan or have a clearance to operate under IFR in class G.
JBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4459 posts, RR: 22 Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1530 times:
I didn't even think of 91.157....that's what I get for going "through the grapevine"....
The "revised" story is that the student wanted to do pattern work under Special VFR (hence remaining within the confines of the airport's Class D airspace). The instructor refused.
I would have done the same thing with my student. I would never let a private student depart under Special VFR especially by himself. If the visibility is already low, you could run into an almost-invisible piece of scud real quick....
Actually, wouldn't sending a pre-private student violate the solo endorsements given by the instructor? If you give a student pilot a solo endorsement "subject to the following conditions: Day VFR", he's not legal in anything but Day VFR conditions. Special VFR conditions are by definition NOT VFR conditions, so there's another catch.
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