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Aircraft "Eyebrow" Windows  
User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5398 times:

I have seen some older A/C with eyebrow windows like the DC-9, DC-8, 727, MD-80, etc... Why do newer A/C not have them and why do Airbuses not have them either?


"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBigphilnyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 4076 posts, RR: 54
Reply 1, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5355 times:

Because the modern planes like to go to clubs. And those are the kind of planes that get their eyebrows waxed.  Big grin

No, but that's a good question. I wonder that myself.



Phil Derner Jr.
User currently offlineHeavymx1 From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 305 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5297 times:

This has been discused before. Today with TCAS and other positioning insturments they are no longer needed.


I am better than you because I live on an Island
User currently offlineMhsieh From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5189 times:

The newer aircraft (starting with DC-10 and L-1011) seem to have larger cockpit windows. The visibility is a lot better than in the 727, 737, 747, DC8, and DC9. I wonder if technology improved to allow larger windows to be made? Was the size limitation due to strength (pressure the windows can withstand) ?

User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3613 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5145 times:

I've always thought of them as sunroofs for pilots...

I think it has something to do with navigating with stars, since back in the time navigating over wide desolate parts of the earth (oceans especially) proved to be tricky without the help of INS or GPS.

Many pilots had (some still have, but a dying breed) to learn star navigation, which is of course not really used anymore...

I have been raised with GPS' all around and I am too young and ignorant to know more about it, so... Help? Anyone?



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineHeavyMx1 From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 305 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5121 times:

The L10-11 actually has a window/sight for the crew to use for navigation by the stars if needed.


I am better than you because I live on an Island
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5117 times:

They're for better visibility. Say you're the captain, and in a 20-30 degree bank right turn, how much are you going to be able to see as far as the horizon, sky goes in the area that you're turning into? Not a whole lot. Same idea in most aircraft, such as in light high wing singles where you have to move your head forward if you need to look to where you're turning due to the wing blocking it.

User currently offlineLmp737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5099 times:

Newer production 717 have the eyebrow windows removed. Not really removed more like not cutting holes in the aluminum to put them there in the first place. This cuts down on production and maintenance costs.

User currently offlineWing From Turkey, joined Oct 2000, 1557 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5073 times:

Whatever reason they are for,it certainly makes me uncomfortable during the afternoon flights because a lot of sunshine comes in.Although it has a green plastic sunshade it still needs to be covered with some piece of paper otherwise it really sweats.There is no such procedure to look from eyebrow window during turns,or we don't have the equipment needed to navigate from stars in the cockpit(we had a lesson about it in my CPL class though).


Widen your world
User currently offlineAvioniker From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1109 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5047 times:

Actually celestial navigation was done through a port where one could attach a sextant. ( For you younger guys that's the cigarette disposal hole in the ceiling of the cockpit in the DC-8's and older 747's.) Not through the eyebrow windows. They were installed for visibility in steep approach turns and to provide additional visibility to the pilots for traffic scanning. They have been deemed unnecessary and won't be installed any more in the 717 and the 737 is losing them too.


One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5014 times:

Hi guys.

These eyebrow windows seem to be prefered by the UK's Royal Navy & Royal Airforce on their BAe Jetstream 31 aircraft (older bizjet). I can't find any photos of civilian Jetstream 31's that have these eyebrow windows. Does this mean that these windows were only an option for the UK's military and not any civilian owners?

Perhaps military pilots need these overhead windows for when they're flying in formation, or for very steep banking?

UK's Royal Navy & Airforce Jetsream 31's.


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Photo © Jim Woodrow
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Photo © Mike Jorgensen



Civilian Jetstream 31's.


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Photo © Gary Watt
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Photo © STUART PRINCE



The Rockwell Sabreliner (another older bizjet), also has eyebrow windows. Unfortunately the photo database's search engine currently has some bugs in it, so I could only retrieve one photo!  Sad


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Photo © John Davies



Chris  Smile



"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5003 times:

Oops!

I didn't mean to refer to the BAe Jetstream 31 as an "old bizjet". It's obviously a turboprop, and they're not that old.

I was thinking about the Lockheed Jetstar when I typed that mistake. The Jetstar is another older bizjet (from the late 1950's) like the Rockwell Sabreliner, and it also has eyebrow windows. Unfortunately, when I click on the Jetstar while doing a photo search, there are no photos available at this time. I've looked at pages & pages of Jetstar & Sabreliner photos in the past though. OH well!

You can view one thumbnail photo of a Lockheed Jetstar in the Aircraft Data & History section, however, if you try to enlarge it, no photo exists!  Nuts


Chris  Smile



"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3613 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4922 times:

I fly the jetstream, and the windshields really are tiny. On 30-so degrees turn to final leg I sometimes find myself having to lower my head to look up to the runway.

Nonetheless I realise that the early military version's eyebrow windows would really have no use in normal comercial operation. You'd really have to regularly do some quasi-aerobatic maneuvers to see some ground through them.

And it's already hot like hell in there so the last thing you want from it is to also be a mini greenhouse...



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineShenzhen From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 1706 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4913 times:

Being able to see the horizon in a bank... such as a runway.

The 737NG will soon be delivering without these eyebrow windows, just like the 717.


User currently offlineWing From Turkey, joined Oct 2000, 1557 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4902 times:

Sometimes if you ar sitting opposite side of final turn as the PF its impossible to see the runway from your position.It such case we as a procedure change flt controls to the PNF who has a better view.I have never seen anyone doing or I did a final turn from looking from an eyebrow window.It is not possible to have a good view from it since it has a thick plastic green sunshade and map light attached on it.But I am only talking what we do in my workplace and my type of airplane.


Widen your world
User currently offlineShenzhen From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 1706 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4834 times:

Wing,

I believe that the eyebrow windows aren't being used as intended way back when, cause normally they are covered with something, to block out the sun.

This is why they are being removed from all Boeing Commercial airplanes. In addition, it will save time and money during production.


User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4815 times:

Hi guys.

Wing, Francoflier, and Shenzhen all mentioned that those eyebrow windows can help contribute to the cockpit getting really hot & sweaty inside .... like a greenhouse.

I guess the pilots in this photo are feeling that way.

The photographer states ......

I can only imagine, how hot it can get in a cockpit. The pilot is cooling down the cockpit with the open windows.


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Photo © Gerardo Dominguez



It looks to me like the eyebrow window on this MD-81 is also open. Is this true?


Chris  Smile



"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
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