QANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1638 posts, RR: 0 Posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6337 times:
I am curious as to:
1) What are LD1, LD2, and LD3 containers, and what's the difference with each one?
2) How many of the cargo bins can fit in the front/back cargo holds of a passenger 767... and a FedEx DC-10/MD-10... and a FedEx MD11?
Thanks!
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
Rydawg82 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 774 posts, RR: 8 Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6199 times:
Loadcontroller From Switzerland, joined Feb 2002, 85 posts, RR: 7 Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6107 times:
Hi Qantas747-438
767-200 Delta airlines:
front: 12 LD2 or 6 LD3 or 6 LD8
back: 10 LD2 or 5 LD3 or 5 LD8
767-300 Delta airlines:
front: 17 LD2 or 8 LD3 or 8 LD8 or 4 P96 (pallets only for 767-300ER)
back: 14 LD2 or 7 LD3 or 8 LD8 but no pallets
for example layout front Hold:
On each position you can place an LD2. An LD3 and an LD8 takes two positions each. 1 pallet takes 4 positions. You can load any possible combination i.e. 2 pallets (POS 11-14 and 15-18) 2 LD8 (POS 7-8 and 9-10) and 6 LD2.
767-400ER Delta airlines:
front: 20 LD2 or 10 LD3 or 10 LD8 or 5 P96
back: 18 LD2 or 9 LD3 or 9 LD8 but no pallets
MD-11 Delta airlines:
front: 18 LD2 or 9 LD3 or 9 LD8 or 6 P96
back: 14 LD2 or 7 LD3 or 7 LD8 but no pallets
777 Delta airlines:
front: 18 LD2 or 9 LD3 or 9 LD8 or 6 P96
back: 14 LD2 or 7 LD3 or 7 LD8 or 4 P96
About the sizes, you follow the links above, they explain the different types quite well.
Many airlines use own hold-configurations, therefore I cannot tell about the fed-ex versions. Maybe somebody else can.
744rules From Belgium, joined Mar 2002, 404 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6089 times:
Loadcontroller,
what is special about the p96 pllt. Is it the contour or the dimentions? According to my info a 767-300 can carry 4 full sized ld pallets (height 160cm)
CrewChief32 From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 418 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6052 times:
Loadcontroller,
aren`t POS 7 & POS 8 within the door section??????
I`ve offloaded ship 1610D just yesterday and I`m sure there are four LD-2 positions to the right hand side of the fwd door...
or is there a difference between the domestic 763s and the transatlantic 763s of DL????
And how do you squeeze the 17th LD-2 in the forward hold of a 763???
Same goes for the 8th LD-8 in the rear hold?????
744rules
regarding the pallets, it is not the height but the width, as a 767 fuselage is quite long but no that wide you have to turn them 90° on the highloader before loading them into the fwd hold.....
On the other hand there are additional bars & locks on the floor in the fwd hold which can be raised so a 88inch pallet should fit in there, too.... (have never loaded one myself into a DL 763).
Loadcontroller From Switzerland, joined Feb 2002, 85 posts, RR: 7 Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6030 times:
Goodness, was I drunk when I wrote this post???
767-300 Delta airlines:
front: 16 LD2 or 8 LD3 or 8 LD8 or 4 P96 (pallets only for 767-300ER)
back: 14 LD2 or 7 LD3 or 7 LD8 but no pallets
for example layout front Hold:
744rules:
Correct, a 767-300 can carry 4 p96 in the front hold.
CrewChief32:
You are absolutely correct, sorry about that mistake. For sure the door section is 5-6 and 7-8. And further: the 17th LD2 and the 8th LD8 would be wishful thinking of DL-Airlines cargo department.... (and definitely impossible; see start of this post)
I am not quite sure, but it might be also different with the MD-11: I think the fuselage of this aircraft is wider than the one of the 767. So it might be possible that one can load as many LD3's as LD2's. Maybe CrewChief knows?
FedExIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 77 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6003 times:
On the FedEx A300, A310, DC10, MD10 and MD11, LD3 containers can be loaded side by side. These planes are a little wider than the 767. For each plane, here is the following.
A300:
Fwd belly
12 LD3 containers loaded side by side or
4 88 or 96x125 pallets
Aft Belly:
10 LD3 containers loaded side by side.
Only PLA pallets can be loaded into aft belly because the door is only 70 inches wide.
A310:
Fwd Belly:
8 LD3 containers or 3 88 or 96x125 inch pallets. Also, can fit 6 LD3 containers and 1 88 or 96x125 inch pallet
Aft Belly:
6 LD3 containers
DC10/MD10:
FWD Belly: Depending on the tail number 14-16 LD3 containers. Those with the 104 inch door can hold 16 containers but the aircraft with the 70 inch door can only hold 14 or 15 containers. The door is placed in between the positions 5 and 6 making it impossible to fully load. The aircraft with the 104 inch door can take 88x125 inch pallets. I have never seen anyone do this since it is a real pain. The DC10 belly locks do not provide latteral restraint and the pallets have to be built right up to 64 inches so they don't jump the locks. Either that, or tie them down to the floor.
AFT belly:
8 or 10 LD3 containers depending on the tail number. Some aircraft have a larger aft belly compartment and the bulk compartment is smaller on those aircraft.
MD11:
Fwd Belly:
18 LD3 containers or 6 88 or 96x125 inch pallets
Aft Belly:
14 LD3 containers and a few tail numbers have a 104 inch door on the aft belly and thus can take 88x125 inch pallets.
744rules From Belgium, joined Mar 2002, 404 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6000 times:
I don't know the policy of other US carriers, but UA allows ld2 to be used on their 777's (same hold dimention as md11), although there are a few rules
- ld2 need to be loaded in pairs and "nose" to "nose" iso back to back.
- these ld2 can also be loaded in combination with ld3. LD3 with nose outboard, ld2 with nose inboard.
- there are also a few mandatory rules for ld2's in a line of ld3, but don't know them any longer. Too long since we've had a 777
QANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1638 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5942 times:
Yeah, this information is great! Sorry I've been so quiet... this past week has had a few family functions because of a wedding.
I ask about the FedEx DC10s and MD11s because quite often, the FedEx guys will tell me that the front belly is "full" and "had 8 containers." So 8 containers come out, then 9, then 10, then 11, etc.... If he said it was full with 8, then I wondered how many it held. So thanks for the info.
I've also had a hard time trying to differentiate the difference between some of the bin types. Such as, what is the difference between an LD2 and an LD3 container?
Lastly, which of the "double" bins (ones that look like two LD3's put together) do the 767 and DC10s use?
Thanks!
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
744rules From Belgium, joined Mar 2002, 404 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5937 times:
The 767 can take ld4 and ld8 ctrs (ie dqf, dqp) The difference between the two is the fact that one of them is "winged".
Mind that the pallets on a 767 are loaded lenghtwise, and not widthwise as on a 747/md11,....
The md11 can take alf-containers (I think it's ld6, but not too familiar with this numbering, 2xld3 = ld6)
DC10Tony From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1012 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5906 times:
MD-11 Delta airlines:
front: 18 LD2 or 9 LD3 or 9 LD8 or 6 P96
back: 14 LD2 or 7 LD3 or 7 LD8 but no pallets
777 Delta airlines:
front: 18 LD2 or 9 LD3 or 9 LD8 or 6 P96
back: 14 LD2 or 7 LD3 or 7 LD8 or 4 P96
How can the MD-11 and 777 not take 18 LD3s? If LD3s will fit side-by-side in An A330, shouldn't they fit the same in an MD-11 and 777. Also, why can't you put pallets in the rear cargo hold of an MD-11? Will it be too tail-heavy? We put pallets in the rear of A330s sometimes.
The 777-200 can hold 6 pallets in the front? Damn! How many can a 773 hold up front, 8?
744rules From Belgium, joined Mar 2002, 404 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5896 times:
DC10Tony,
Not all md11 have wide aft cargo doors to accomodate pallets. I think it must be either an option, or just available on later models. BR has got both versions (freighters).
Just as not all 767 have a wide fwd cargo door and thus can only accomodate containers.
You are correct to doubt about the ld3 on md11/777. It can not be an odd number as they are loaded in pairs.
QANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1638 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5870 times:
744rules hit on something else that I didn't understand. I saw a United bin today with "AVE 3912 UA" as it's marker. I've also seen "AKE", "DQF", "DPE", and "AVE". What do those mean???
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
CrewChief32 From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 418 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5865 times:
The first three letters are the identification come for the TYPE of container/pallet,AKE is probably the most common one for widebodies and AKH is the standard container for the A319/20/21.....
There are containers for every purpose, some are for medium-sized living animals, for cloth-bags, for frozen stuff, for weapons, etc. etc......
other differences are that some are liftable with a forklift while others have metal doors instead of the usual net and and and....
The 4 digits and the two-letter-code thereafter are the identification code of the airline.
744rules From Belgium, joined Mar 2002, 404 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5856 times:
I would also like to add that the first 3 characters can be split up as well
1st character shows the kind of uld (unit load devise) a= container p = pallet
2nd character gives the floor dimentions m=96x125inch/a=88x125inch,...
3rd character gives "height" contour. This character will tell you what certification criteria the unit has.
an example:
if you see a unit showing AMD, you will know it is a container with floor dimension 96x125inch. In this case the -d- shows its 240cm/300cm heigh and will fit on the 747 maindeck (both freighter and combi).
There are also older and newer typegiving . AKC and AVJ (half width 747 lower deck = ld1) are completely identical, but AKC is the more recent name. Same goes for p1p=pag/p6p=pmc/...
I am shure that someone can give a link to a complete list.
Mikeclod From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 272 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5833 times:
Actually, the four digit number, as in: ake "1234" fx, is the can number. The airline code is the "FX" part.
Mikeclod
P.S. FedEx's are FM and FX
QANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1638 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5762 times:
Wow, that's a lot of great information. It's a bit hard to understand, but I am getting the hang of it. Thanks!
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
boacboac From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 17 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1529 times:
Hi
Would like to resurrect this old thread with a question.
Whats the longest overhang at one end you can get on a cargo pallet on a 767-300 ?
We have managed to get a piece that overhung one end of an LD11 flat pallet that was a 63in (160Cm) overhang.
We had to use an LD11 to turn it through the door, an LD7 would not have turned, just wondered what the absolute max overhang at one end would be on an LD11 on a 767-300
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