Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Airspace Reform  
User currently offlineLiamksa From Australia, joined Oct 2001, 308 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1304 times:

G'day

Here in OZ we are in the process of phasing in a new National Airspace System (NAS), with gradual changes at various time intervals. The net result will be to align our airspace with the North American system and the ICAO standard.

The other night I attended a seminar on the proposed changes to our airspace. American flight school operators John & Martha King were guest speakers to share some of their thoughts on our new NAS.

The major difference will be in the classes of airspace surrounding our major airports. At the moment international airports are (mostly) class C airspace which extend quite high, and are surrounded in class G. The plan is to cut the radius and height of the class C to say 4500' and surround it in class E. Transponders are required if you want to use class E, which will hugely limit the freedom of some aircraft, especially as once the NAS is implemented there will be 400,000 square km additional class E. I have no experience in class E - does it work? Safe? The speakers believed that despite traffic density being far less here compared to the US, the danger of a mid-air collision is greater.

Another implementation well be to US CTAF procedures - particularly standardising radio calls and joining 45 degrees to downwind. I have always joined x-wind overhead the threshold a believe it is the best method - any thoughts?

There were also several trivial changes such as the re-labeling of danger areas to alert areas. They also kept plugging the fact that the charts will be simpler, thus encouraging people to undergo flight training and get into aviation. I think it's safe to say that the major reason people who want to fly don't undergo flight training is due to the cost and not the scary looking charts.

These are only a couple of the changes - for anyone interested more can be found at http://www.dotars.gov.au/airspacereform/index.htm.

I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of any Aussie or US aviators out there on our new airspace, or the advantages/disadvantages of any other airspace systems in the world.

Cheers, Rob.

7 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGoboeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2706 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1236 times:

"The speakers believed that despite traffic density being far less here compared to the US, the danger of a mid-air collision is greater."

This is the only thing I don't understand from what you/they said. Most of the planes in class E aren't on flight following or IFR, they're just VFR flying around, seeing-and-avoiding. Having class E will only help the ones who are on flight following or IFR.

Nick


User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1214 times:

I don't know what your country's old system is, but our ICAO system works well for us in the U.S. It's best to have a worldwide standard so that international pilots aren't so confused from country to country, imo.


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineWoodreau From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1049 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1201 times:

As the other two people have stated, there is no difference between class G and class E airspace when the weather is good. Only when weather drops below VFR does the class E have an effect.

The US changed from its airspace classification to conform to ICAO airspace classification in the early 90's. I imagine it caused quite a stir when it was first implemented, but now that all new pilots are being taught ICAO airspace since day one of flight training (and they haven't heard of the old terms TCA (class B), ARSA (class C), TRSA (no equivalent)) There doesn't seem to be too much gnashing of teeth.

Although I notice that Canada doesn't surround it's international airports with Class B airspace, but Class C instead.

Cheers  Smile
Woodreau / KMVL



Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1185 times:

I happen to know what what TCA, PCA, ARSA, control zone, etc. are, but it's great to see those old airline captains who don't have a clue what Class B airspace is. While weather minimums are really the only difference between Class E and Class G for VFR aircraft, Class E requires an ATC clearance to operate IFR.


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offline411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1175 times:

On the other hand JHooper, there are plenty of old airline Captains that DO know what Class B airspace is....and indeed they also know how to/have flown 707's, DC6's, L1649's, DC3's...well the list goes on and on.
A few can even remember/have flown four course LF radio ranges.

Have YOU done any of those things?

Even a few TRSA's around...PSP, for example.


User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1162 times:

I'm 23 so I can't say I exactly have that resume, but I once had the opportunity to ride on a DC-3, and I loved every minute of it! By the way, was an LF radio range one of those navigational aids that used a dot-dash on one side of the course and a dash-dot on the other side so that you would hear a steady tone if you were on course? Those were the days, weren't they 411A ?


Regards.

P.S. I know my post above sounded kinda arrogant; sorry about that.



Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offline411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1154 times:

Jhooper,
Yep, that's the one, steady tone on course.
Worked OK, but of course VOR's were a lot better when they came along.

Nowadays, we have RNP10, RNP5, even RNP0.3 for really accurate navigation, thanks to GPS.

Recall when INS was introduced, 1/2 mile error was possible after a four hour flight. Nifty gear. Then along came VLF/Omega. On one flight I made from Iceland, the radial error was 1/4 mile after four hours. not bad at all.

Not to mention Loran 'A' (so-so), then Loran 'C' (much better).

One flight I completed in the B707 HNL-SFO, we had dual Doppler and a navigator, who used astro navigation, and he was exactly 2 miles off after 5 hours....oddly enough he was the same age as you, 23.




Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Airspace Reform
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
How Is Airspace Class Decided? posted Tue May 13 2008 20:37:46 by Graphic
Military Airspace Question (Chart Linked) posted Sat May 10 2008 19:38:33 by SuseJ772
Airspace Over China - Big "holes"? posted Mon Apr 14 2008 14:16:32 by Mozart
SQ1: Why Did We Avoid Chinese Airspace? posted Sun Apr 6 2008 23:43:07 by KELPkid
London Terminal Control Major Airspace Change posted Thu Feb 21 2008 13:26:35 by ACW367
Does US Airspace Ever Extend Into Canada? posted Thu Feb 7 2008 10:10:56 by N353SK
Where Class G And E Airspace Collide posted Sat Sep 8 2007 22:13:09 by Nbgskygod
Class B Airspace - Speed Restriction posted Sat Jan 13 2007 00:44:32 by CDreier
Oasis Hongkong: Permission To Use Russian Airspace posted Fri Dec 8 2006 22:07:23 by A300605R
VOR And Airspace Fixes Maps? posted Thu May 11 2006 21:07:19 by Wardialer

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format