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Cause Of Specific Sound At Take-off Of A-320?  
User currently offlineOOPJV From Belgium, joined Jun 2003, 48 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4975 times:

Last week, I flew on a Spanair A320 (actually the newest in the fleet, EC-IOH, delivered last May) from Munchen to Valencia, and I was sitting in row 4, just next to the RR-engine. At take-off, the very specific roaring of the engine was very loud, until almost top of climb. Only the RR powered A-320's (and of course A319's and A-321's) produce this particular sound, which seems to be very specific for just this type of engine, and is totally different from the sound of every other jet engine. This sound is almost like the sound of a propeller. What causes this sound? Is it the fan? It disappears when the engine power is reduced after take-off.
Thanks for your information.
Peter

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMb339 From Italy, joined Jun 2001, 238 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4899 times:

Also the CFM56 produce that sound.

It's called buzz sound and it's produced by the fan and the compressor and it's typical of high by-pass engines.


User currently offlineOOPJV From Belgium, joined Jun 2003, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4785 times:

Sorry, of course I meant the IAE V2500-engine, not RR..
The CFM-56 also produces this sound, but is distinctively quieter...


User currently offlineClrd2go From United States of America, joined Feb 2003, 1000 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4757 times:


I absolutely love that sound.



Jim



What a long strange trip it's been
User currently offlineGeneralA From Germany, joined May 2001, 201 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4737 times:

Actually it is called "buzz saw noise". I love it !!!

GeneralA


User currently offlineMb339 From Italy, joined Jun 2001, 238 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4707 times:

I've never flown with A320's equipped with V2500 and I though that CFM's were more louder than V2500

I heard sometime ago the sound of B777 PW during take-off and it seemed a piston engine!


User currently offlineN243NW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1609 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4634 times:

The NW DC-10-30s that I used to fly in had the same roaring, buzzing sound on takeoff and climb. If I'm not mistaken, I think they had GE CF6s. I sure do miss that sound!
-N243NW Big grin



B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
User currently offlineMb339 From Italy, joined Jun 2001, 238 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4604 times:

If I'm not wrong, the L1011's produce that sound as well

User currently offlinePositive rate From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 2143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4570 times:

Even the 737-800 makes that sound if you're sitting right next to or just in front of the engine. But the A320 is really distinct. When an A320 is flying straight towards you it sounds different- more like a "whoooooooo" sound then side-on it's totally different. From inside the "buzzsaw" sound is very loud.

User currently offlineContinental From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5499 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days ago) and read 4561 times:

The F-100 sounds like a race car when the engines are at full power!

co


User currently offlineB727-200 From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 1051 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (10 years 8 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4543 times:


I believe the sound is caused by the tips of the blades on the bypass fan breaking the sound barrier.

B727-200.


User currently offlineMusang From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 845 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (10 years 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4472 times:

B727-200 has it right.

Having flown frequently on BA's A320s, my heart sinks if a CFM machine pulls up to the gate. You expect the buzzsaw noise to disappear at reduction height as it reverts to climb thrust, but noooooo! its with you the whole time till descent.

I'm sure its different in the back, but I seem to find myself over the wing or forward of it every time.

The IAE 2500s on the new ones are a delight in comparison.

Regards - Musang


User currently offlinePhilhyde From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 676 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 4374 times:

I agree with Jim and others, in that I positively love that noise! Most recently I flew on an America West 757 from PHX to SFO in first class, well in front of the engines but prime "buzz saw noise" location. In my experience, this noise seems to be quite unique to the Rolls Royce turbofans.


HoustonSpotters Admin - Canon junkie - Aviation Nut
User currently offlineBeefmoney From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1111 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 4380 times:

In my experience with 757s, RR engines do seem to have a more pronounced "Buzz-saw" noise.

When Im spotting here in PHX, and an HP 752 starts its takeoff roll, I always make sure to tell my friends to shut up because the best sound you will ever hear is approaching.

But then another non-RR engined 757 will takeoff, and you can notice it lacking the overpowering buzzsaw noise.

I LOVE IT


User currently offline7E7 From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 159 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4273 times:

I guess it is the same sound I heard on Gulf Air's A340's and A320's on my last trip. Sitting in 2nd row 1st class on both types, I first thought something was wrong, as I had never flown in the position on an airbus before. The sound faded away while reaching the top of climb/cruise speed/altitude.


User currently offlineJafa From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 782 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4109 times:

All of NWA's DC10's, A319/320, 757's make that noise on takeoff. On the airbus and 757 you can hear it if seated forward of the wing during takeoff, and on the DC10's you can hear in the entire cabin due to the tail mounted engine. NWA uses Pratt & Whitney engines. Acutally on the 319 if seated at the 1L door it can be very loud.

User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4103 times:

I believe the sound is caused by the tips of the blades on the bypass fan breaking the sound barrier.

yep. it is also heard on many prop aircraft. always makes it interesting. i also like the sound of wind entering a nacelle from the rear. that howl is pretty cool!



"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
User currently offlineKaiTakFan From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1588 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3955 times:

I am shocked nobody has mentioned the growling sound that a RR RB-211 powered 747-400 makes during take off! That is by far my favourite! The BA 777-200 with RR engines sounds very nice as well!

Beefmoney, Have you manged to watch Speed Bird 288 Heavy take off from Runway 26 during the evening? If you are at the spot north of there... I say that is my favourite place to watch departures!! You can just feel the power since you are so close!


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3862 times:

Rolls-Royce engines make the coolest sound. The deep gutteral growl of them is almost primal. I really miss Delta's L-1011s, you'd always known when one was cranking its' engines across the way on the next concourse, that roar would reverbrate even inside a pillbox. It would make the metal siding inside the stairwells (on ASA's gates on C @ ATL) rattle in tune with the engine. Rolls-Royce engines are by far my favorite.

User currently offlineBeefmoney From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1111 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3805 times:

Hey KaiTak,
Ive never been able to catch the British depart since, as you mentioned, it is so late in the evening. When I do catch it, Im on top of the parking garage which, although gives you a great overview, doesnt give you the sense of power you mention.

That spot just north of 26, the dirt road, is always a great place to sit and watch landings when your eating lunch. Ive done that many times, but not so much as of late due to security guards getting jumpy.

Do you know if the restaraunt just north of 8 is still closed? I used to LOVE going up on top of the building when I was younger. But now it seems to be fenced off.


User currently offlineBruce From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5036 posts, RR: 16
Reply 20, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days ago) and read 3794 times:

Reading these posts I am seeing that everyone thinks their plane make a specific noise......

The A320 family does have a distinct sound not shared by any others. I have heard it on the outside watching one take off. On friday will be my first ride inside of one. But their sound is different than any other.

The 737-800 does not sound like an Airbus on takeoff, from the outside.


Also the CRJ has a distinct sound.


bruce



Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
User currently offlineSAS-A321 From Denmark, joined Mar 2002, 401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3766 times:

I juuuust love that sound.
The 757 also produce this sound and some times I heard the 737NG make it.



It's Scandinavian
User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3707 times:

Sorry, of course I meant the IAE V2500-engine, not RR..

Actually, you were part right. RR makes the fan blade for the V2500.

Also, The BR715 makes that buzz saw noise. GOD I LOVE IT!!!!!!!


User currently offlineKaiTakFan From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1588 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3687 times:

Beefmoney,

The Left Seat Restaraunt's viewing deck is still closed! Very disapointing to see that!! I loved haning out up there as well! But I guess the dirt lot at 26 is the best we have for now! Speaking of which... how often are you out there? I am usually there 3 times a week or so after class. the airport is so close to ASU I cant help but go to see Lufthansa or British Airways!

Cheers!
Brian


User currently offlineAsgeirs From Iceland, joined May 2001, 516 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3614 times:

My first and only A320 flight was 3 years ago. Although it was my first flight since I was about 13 (9 years earlier), I noticed right away that the V2500 engines sounded quite different from the others.

I have flown 19 times since then (mostly on CFM-56 powered 737's, but also a few times on P&W and RR powered 747's + turboprops) and none of them have even sounded remotely similar to the V2500's. I will most likely be flying on 757, 767 and 777 aircrafts next month for the first time, so it will be interesting to compare their engine sounds to the others.



Reykjavik Aviation Photography - Just bring the aircraft to us and we'll photograph them! :-)
User currently offlineF-WWAI From Andorra, joined Dec 1999, 131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3598 times:

not sure we need to extend this any further.
just note: the particular sound is named "pure tone" noise, some times oddly called "buzz saw noise".
it characterises a high by-pass ratio turbofan, thus it is coming with all modern engines now to some extent.
it is produced by the fan blades running at relative supersonic airspeed. if there is one frequency emerging only and representing the No. of Blades times Revs, then they call it BPF, the Blade Passing Frequency, if blades group together (totally arbitrary) then a series of frequency emerge; this looks like toothes of a saw on the noise spectrum and sounds like what you folks have heard.
the fan speed varies significantly after take off and the fan mach number changes with altitude and flying speed, thats why this characteristical sound vanishes in climb quite rapidly.
the manufactureres tune the engine ai intakes to absorb most of that sound energy, but like so often in life, they cannot twist the physics totally away.


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