B747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 14088 times:
A "two stage rotation" is nothing new in the aviation industry. I once flew for ONA during a furlough from PanAm... We had both DC8-50s and DC8-60s. For take off - at the time we called VR rotation speed, we said "rotation, long body" as a reminder to limit the initial rotation to 8 degrees, got airborne, then further pulled the nose up to some 12-15 degrees for initial climb out, if it was a long body Series 61 or 63...
As a matter of fact, some "Stretched DC8s" had a little horizontal line which was on the ADI, located at the "8 degree" pitch angle, as a reminder.
Rotation "tail clearance" is always a consideration as you fly any "stretched" aircraft type, I had a similar situation when I flew the 747SP vs the 100/200, as the initial rotation is 11 degrees for a 747, while SP can be rotated to some 14-15 degrees initially. No headache there...
I am certain the Boeing 737 FCTM mentions a rotation limit for such longer body 737s. Just look at the drawings and side views of the aircraft in your manuals, the angle drawn from main gear to the tail... There, is your answer for the rotation limit. If you are to fly one, the first time you will do, your check captain will tell you what it is, and the proper technique, a 30 second discussion with him, is all the extent of your concern...
B747skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 13901 times:
I would not venture - liability here... but I would say 8 degrees, probably...
By the way, if you "fear" to hit the tail, using "more flaps" for takeoff, as you have this choice in many airplanes, reduces the "lift-off" angle required to get airborne. So, if you have the choice, and have a "tail strike phobia", use a higher flap setting, if runway/climb performance gives you the option.
Again - talk to crewmembers who are knowledgeable about the 737-800. I am strickly mentioning generalities here. The technique I described to you for the stretched DC-8s is remaining applicable in any case. These long DC-8s had many instances of tail skid strikes. Lucky, I never got one, but I once hit a pod on number 4 engine while landing a DC8-63 in bad gusts/crosswinds, it was poor pilot technique, my own, I admit.
Other than that, I never had any other incidents... Just lucky I guess
Markus From United States of America, joined May 1999, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 13878 times:
A Delta pilot once told me a few years ago that they use 8deg initial attitude followed by 12-15deg. Also, the 738 uses a standard takeoff flap setting of 15deg as opposed to the 5deg setting used on the shorter 737s. I'd assume that the 739 uses this setting as well. The 15deg setting would result in a flatter takeoff profile in regards to attitude...hope this helps.
AAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3498 posts, RR: 46
Reply 8, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 13826 times:
WHEN TAKING OFF AT Macedonian Airlines (Greece)">IN THE 737-800, AND USING TWO-PHASE ROTATION, DOES THE PILOT ROTATE TO 5 OR 6
DEGREES INITIALLY, THEN TO 10 DEGREES AFTER REACHING FULLY AIRBORNE?
Depends upon what technique is used/taught by the individual operator(s).
IS IT OK IF A PILOT ROTATES TO 5 DEGREES INITIALLY???
"Ok"? Sure, why not if not prohibited by your airline's operating manual.
AT WHAT PITCH ATTITUDE WOULD THE 737 800 HAVE A TAILSKID STRIKE?
I AM INCLUDING A PICTURE OF A 737 800 ON TAKEOFF ROTATION.....CAN U PLEASE LET ME KNOW APPROXIMATELY HOW MUCH DEGREES IT IS PITCHED (AS MAY BE SEEN ON THE ADI OF THE PFD)....
Any comment looking at a picture would be a "SWAG" [Stupid Wild-A** Guess].
FYI, some excerpts from my OpMan:
For optimal takeoff and initial climb performance, initiate a smooth continuous rotation at VR at a rate of no more than 2 to 3 degrees per second to an initial target pitch attitude of 10 degrees. Normal liftoff attitude is between 8 and 9 degrees providing 20 inches of tail clearance at flaps 1 and 5. Tail contact will occur at 11 degrees of pitch if still on or near the ground. After liftoff, continue to raise the nose smoothly at a rate of no more than 2 to 3 degrees per second toward 15 degrees of pitch attitude.
Takeoff and initial climb performance depend on rotating at the correct airspeed and proper rate to the rotation target attitude. Early or rapid rotation may cause aft fuselage contact with the runway. Late, slow, or under-rotation increases takeoff ground roll. Any improper rotation decreases initial climb flight path.
With wheels on the runway and landing gear struts extended, aft fuselage contact will occur at 11 degrees pitch attitude.
On the HUD, if pitch exceeds the TO/GA line, the chance of a tailstrike is significantly increased. The TO/GA line remains at +10 degrees until 10 feet RA, and then rates up at 2 degrees per second to match the PFD FD.